New clutch, high pedal.

[Peg]

Hello Puma people, this is my first post here.

I recently found a nice clean, low mileage (47k) low owner and rust free silver 1.7. Everything seemed good apart from the clutch was very high up on the pedal but not slipping, so I bought a new clutch kit with a slave cylinder and had them fitted. Now the clutch feels the exact same, very high biting point and also feels very light under foot. I have spoken to the garage and they said there is no way to adjust the clutch, where it bites that's where it's staying, regardless. He said bring it in next week and he'll bleed the hydraulic system but it'll probably not help.

Is the case ? am I really stuck with it like that ? I have long legs and find it hard to enjoy driving it with my knee above the dash.

Cheers
Peg.

 

[yippeekiay]

Welcome to the site.
Hopefully someone can answer your query as it's too long ago since I changed a Puma clutch so don't want to give any bum info

 

[Cubatoo]

Hi and welcome, I have had an original clutch and a new clutch fitted. I don't think it changed with the new clutch but I don't think that either let out that high. I will have to go and play with my Puma though as I don't drive her every day and just do the clutch without thinking when I do!
Having said that, I'm sorry I don't have experience of changing the height I'm afraid.

 

[DOH]

The only 2 things that I can think of that can cause this are :

1) The clutch master cylinder may have been replaced and may even be off a different model Ford (check it's part number).
Perhaps the rod that connects to the clutch pedal is currently too long and is threaded and if so try to then back off the adjustment to cause some freeplay?( I have never looked closely at the clutch master cylinder on the Puma to verify if the rod is adjustable)

2) If the release bearing on the concentric slave cylinder is thicker than the original Ford, this could also cause this.
However in view of the fact your result after replacing the clutch it is the same as before , I would be looking at my point above.

 

[YOG]

What make of clutch kit with a slave cylinder did you buy? A picture would help.

 

[Peg]

Thanks for the replies people.

DOH, cheers. The original ford clutch which only had 47k on it felt the exact same as as this new clutch, very high biting point and very light to push down. Hopefully I'll not need to open her up again to sort it, another 300 quid on top of the 420 I've spent so far hurts a bit. Would it be worth having the hydraulic system bled ?

YOG, cheers. I purchased the clutch kit new from a vendor on ebay, the picture of the clutch was just a generic one.

Cubatoo & yippeekiay, thanks for the welcomes.

 

[DOH]

Hi Peg. You say earlier that you replaced the slave cylinder , (which is fitted within the gearbox bell housing area on the end of the output shaft ), It will have had to been bled to be able to be able to select the gears . If you had air in the system then there would be no resistance on the pedal, which isn't as you have described as your symptoms . So no, I don't think bleeding will help.
Have you spoken to the previous owner to establish if what I originally recommended you look at has been changed or adjusted?

 

[GreenEyedPuma]

Peg,
Hi, if you've followed the previous responders advice, particularly from "Doh" without any improvement, I've had a few thoughts, that maybe your old and new clutch parts, cylinder, etc., were ok, but your car may be the victim of previous owners "modifications"....

I saw your original post, but didn't notice you'd said of the clutch "and also feels very light under foot". That really sounds wrong to me. From my experience of having my 1.7 for a bit over 20 years was they most definitely DO NOT have a light clutch pedal. The first time I drove one, a test drive of a 1 year old model at a Ford Dealer, I was so surprised by how hard the clutch was to press, that I thought somebody had left a brick under the pedal!!!

Anyway, I put up with that and got used to it in my own car, but it did get a bit wearing on the achey old knees, whenever I got in a long stop start crawl on the Motorway. I loved what made it such a fun drivers car, the fact that everything was only lightly assisted - the steering and brakes. The brakes (shared with the clutch hydraulics) seemed to have only a very light booster action (unlike most modern cars that throw you forward when you barely touch the brake pedal), that you could actually put loads of weight on the pedal, when required. That light brake assistance was presumably why the hydraulic clutch was so relatively heavy!

So, to me, that begs the question - how is your BRAKE pedal? Does it feel like it has a high, or low level of power assistance? I'm only a hobbyist DIY'er, not a mechanic, so sorry if I'm saying anything that sounds ridiculous to any proper mechanics here, but here goes with my thoughts:-

If the BRAKE pedal seems highly assisted (little pressure required), then possibly a previous owner has had the brake booster replaced (maybe from a different Ford model), or even just "tinkered with" to provide a higher boost action (if that is possible), to make the car "easier" to drive for daily use (especially re the clutch), rather than being the drivers car it is meant to be!

If the BRAKE pedal feels normal, other possibilities are that maybe your CLUTCH pedal has been replaced for a longer one, or had the fulcrum point changed, in an effort to require less effort to press it. If that has been done, it would likely come at the expense of a longer clutch pedal travel and consequently possibly a higher bite point!

My old Puma is history by nearly 2 years now, so I have nothing to compare any photo's you are able to take, but hopefully anybody else on the forum can offer assistance on any you can take. Can you take and post photo's of your pedal arrangement (all three, for relative scale of each) and the brake booster? Try and capture any part identifying labels, so others can compare with their cars, or against known part numbers, etc., to say if they are original, or "modifications" on your car!

Good luck with the mystery!

 

[Peg]

Thanks for the replies guys.

DOH - cheers, yes I had the clutch plates and slave cylinder changed. There is only a little resistance on the clutch pedal, it is very light under foot just as it was before I replaced it.. I am not a mechanic so no way to open her up to check the thickness of the release bearing or the clutch rod.

GreenEyedPuma - thank you. The brake pedal feels normal, not too strong or light, seems just right. I think everything on the car is standard. I got it of a guy who's wife had it from almost new, it has had all the work needed done at a ford dealership, book is stamped up till a couple of years ago, she only did 2k miles a year to the shop / hairdressers and back so I'm guessing it's bog standard. I have lots of history for the car but can't find a receipt for anything that would affect the clutch.

I am thinking it is not the clutch and or cylinder as the original ford one I have just had changed felt the exact same as this new clutch. The old original ford clutch had only done 46k from new so should have been fine.

 

[DOH]

Hi Peg
The rod length I referred to is not inside the gearbox , The Clutch master cylinder is connected to the clutch pedal and may be accessible from under the dash above the pivoting point of the pedal.

With regards to GreenEyed Puma's comments about the servo assistance of the Brakes, please ignore that part of the post as although the brake and clutch share the same fluid reservoir the clutch does not benefit from any servo assistance.

Provided your new clutch isn't slipping , although you are correct that the biting point on a new clutch should be low on the travel from the floor. For the time being , I wouldn't worry too much about it for now.

Do you have the possibility of comparing the travel with another puma or a Mk4 fiesta for comparism?

With regards to GreenEyed Pumas comment:
"If the BRAKE pedal feels normal, other possibilities are that maybe your CLUTCH pedal has been replaced for a longer one, or had the fulcrum point changed, in an effort to require less effort to press it. If that has been done, it would likely come at the expense of a longer clutch pedal travel and consequently possibly a higher bite point!"

Agreed that is a possibility, but the clutch pedal would surely then be longer than the brake pedal, which would be easily detectable by visual inspection.

Personally I wouldn't dwell on this. Enjoy the Puma as is, which is still even to this day a cracking drive .

For me the feedback from the steering, gearchange and also the "diesel like" low end torque of the 1.7 was something that really impressed me on my first drive of the 1.7 Puma.

 

[John Woodward]

For me the feedback from the steering, gearchange and also the "diesel like" low end torque of the 1.7 was something that really impressed me on my first drive of the 1.7 Puma.

Totally agree, the whole feedback of the Puma is excellent, it impressed me from day 1 and still does every time I drive one of my Puma's, which is most days.

 

[Peg]

Cheers Doh.

Well, I have found a temporary fix for the said problem, had the wife driving it, she has shorter legs then me and it is quite nice in the passenger seat anyway. Yes the engine is a little peach alright. Thanks for the help guys.