Puma Virgin. Age vs Mileage vs Engine?

[da8gizmo]

Hi there everybody.
I've always liked the looks of Pumas but never actually considered buying on until recently. Due to some unforeseen circumstances, namely the gearbox pretty much dropping out the bottom of my MK3 Ibiza, I find myself in need of a vehicle quick and have set my sights on one of these wild cats!
So as a first time buyer I'm after a bit of guidance. I've read though the very helpful buyers guide and so am (hopefully) aware of what to look/check for. But my query kinda relates specifically to 3 examples I've already viewed.

For the sake of shorthand, I will refer to these as Car 1, Car 2 and Car 3 (and this is actually the order I viewed them in)

Rather than just posting links straight off the bat, I'll first list the key stats along with my amateurish first impressions. And then I'll pop links at the end.

Car 1:
Silver 2001 (X reg) 1.6 - 66k miles

Pros -
Newest of the 3, body is in very good condition, no visible signs of rust anywhere including the door sills and arches.
MOT till November, Tax till August. FSH. Original manual including Radio lock code. Brand new battery recently installed.
9 spoke alloys -again in great condition.
Cons -
Only 1.6 engine (more on this later)
The engine management light was on throughout the test drive. I made the seller aware (he's selling on behalf of his sister so said he wasn't aware of it) and he he said he would get it taken to a garage and looked at right away.
Some rattling from the back of the car when driving. When I stopped and had a look I found that the plastic surround on the rear windscreen was a little loose on the right hand side. It looked like the little nub that you connect the parcel shelf string to was missing and therefore not holding the plastic tight to the body of the boot lid.
The Door Open light on the dash stays on even when all doors are shut. ("apparently it's always been like that"?)
I don't know if it was just me, but it sounded a little 'airy' on my side when I was driving it, as though the driver's door window was very slightly open or the door wasn't shut properly (maybe this is why the dash light is on..?)
Only provided with 1 x 3 button key, no others.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Car 2:
Green 2000 (W reg) 1.7i 16v -60k

Pros -
FSH. Newly replaced (January) Timing belt, Water Pump and thermostat. Nicer engine. 2 keys, no warning lights at all, all electrics seem perfect.
Cons - Scratch on middle of the boot, about the size of a 50p, possibly where it's hit the roof of a garage when it was opened? Passenger wing mirror glass missing (he said someone must have kicked it when walking by? (it is in Camberwell!)) how much is this to replace?
Not really a fan of the 5 spoke 'swirl' alloys.
Missing the small plastic tab next to the right reflector on the rear bumper
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Car 3:
Silver 1998 (R eg) 1.7i 16v - 55k

Pros -
FSH - MOT till November, 2keys. nice wheels, all in excellent condition. Lowest Mileage..
Cons -
Oldest of the three, analogue odometer (due to it being the older model), few scratches around the body work. Not a complete FSH..
------------------------------------------------------------------------

So obviously a few issues with each. But my main question is this..
Should I be more concerned about age of the vehicle or mileage?

And also, as I'm new to 'sporty' cars (started with a K reg 1.1 Fiesta, then had a 1.6 16v Bravo and now a 1.4 Ibiza) will I notice much difference between the 1.6 and the 1.7i?
I know everyone says the 1.7 is the 'proper Puma' engine, but should I base my buying criteria on that?

Sorry for the huge post and I would really appreciate any feedback, advice and assistance anyone can offer.

Thanks

Dan

Oh, almost forgot, here are the links..

Car 1 :
http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/stunning-2001-ford-puma-16-65k-only1-yrs-mot-tax-service-history-fully-loaded-excellent-cond/1009290554#gallery-item-full-3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Car 2:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201302065216554/sort/default/usedcars/price-to/1000/maximum-mileage/up_to_80000_miles/transmission/manual/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/radius/10/page/6/postcode/br34ep?logcode=p" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Car 3:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201302095272607/sort/default/usedcars/price-to/1000/model/puma/make/ford/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/postcode/br34ep/radius/10/page/1/quicksearch/true?logcode=p" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Flying Scotsman]

Number 3!!!
Very nice.
Service history, thats what you make of it really. For the last few years I have done my own servicing so theres no service history for mine.
Age of car, does it really matter its analogue... mines a 98 and questionably better than the later models.

Take number 3...

 

[evilrob]

Forget 1 - too much wrong with it. Will turn out to be a world of pain and it hasn't got the fizzy 1.7 engine

I'd be put off 3 because I like to have a folder of paperwork, but that's just personal preference. (you should see my checklist!)

Number 2 seems to have the right receipts, and is the happy medium of age and mileage. The cosmetic issues are easily fixed - I'd go for that one. You won't have any trouble selling or swapping the propellor wheels for something more to your taste; they're a bit marmite but some people love 'em and those ones seem to be in good nick.

 

[-B-]

Car #2: I’d be wary about the timing belt replacement claim, by this trader seller. I phoned him about a month ago, when there was no claim in the advert, that the timing belt had been changed. When I asked him about the service history, he claimed he’d just replaced the belt himself, or at least a local garage had. But why would a back-street car trader, go to the trouble and expense of replacing the belt, just because it was due? He’s never going to recoup that money in a sale, especially priced at £825. He said he could take me to the garage that had replaced it, to prove it, but I asked him to email me a scan of the receipt for the work, only then would I be prepared to make the journey into London. I’m still waiting for that receipt. If the belt was replaced, I’d suggest the likeliest scenario would be that he purchased the car with a broken belt, which is another reason to be wary - what damage might have been caused to the engine when it snapped? The mileage seems legit, when I ran an MOT history check on it, but a car with that low mileage, with 4 decent tyres, and all those parts just replaced, 12m MOT, 6m tax, should be going for double that price from a dealer.

Car #3: No matter what the seller claims about ‘history’, make sure you run an MOT history check on it, here: https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history-vehicle" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Early cars had 5 digit odometers, including that one, and quite a few have been around the clock. A few recent MOT certificates might not be enough to uncover that. Online you can go back to 2005/06.

 

[Neil]

I'd go with car two - it looks the most original. You might also be looking at a Ph3 car with the larger brake discs - always a bonus.

http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=67" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As for the others:

Car 1 - For me, too many problems, plus you know you want the 1.7

Car 3 isn't original - at that age it should be on props, and the gearknob is from a Focus. Little things, I know, but for piece of mind, I'd prefer a completely straight car. On lthe plus side though, it does have the electric seats, and IMO the earlier seats are much better.

 

[da8gizmo]

Wow, thanks for speedy responses and all of the useful advice!

So Car 1 is ruled out.
1 down, 2 to go.

-B- - Your comments are interesting as when I went to view the car, I actually met his so called mechanic. He was just sat in the passenger seat (yes, even though I had arranged a viewing, when I arrived the seller had to 'fetch the car from around the corner) I asked the seller about the recent replacements and he just pointed as his mate saying "yea, he's the mechanic that did all the work"
Also, another interesting development : I just called my insurance company to get a quote on all of them, and when I gave her the number plate of Car 2, she said that it was a 1.6, not a 1.7 ...
could the seller be trying to pull a fast one here?
I mentioned it to the nice insurance lady and she said that their details/database may not be 100% correct. (although all the other details matched up)

I'll try and do an MOT check on them both but it looks as though I need more than just the vehicle reg.
Hopefully I can get a MOT certificate number from the sellers so that I can verify the details.


If all else fails then I've just seen to more that I may go take a look at...

Car 4 :
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201302115289439/sort/default/usedcars/maximum-mileage/up_to_80000_miles/model/puma/make/ford/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/postcode/br34ep/radius/20/page/1?logcode=p" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Car 5 :
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201302115293047/sort/default/usedcars/maximum-mileage/up_to_80000_miles/model/puma/make/ford/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/postcode/br34ep/radius/20/page/1?logcode=p" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks again guys!

Dan (hopefully, soon to be fellow Puma owner)

 

[evilrob]

Car 2 is a 1.7 according to Ford Etis:

 

[red]

I like the look of car #5 looks standard except the black stereo, you can see the engine on with what appears to be no other warning lights. Has original mats, the cover for the fuel cut off is still in place, is one of the later ones...

Of course you'll need to actually see it to make sure there's not other issues like knocking noises, suspension etc but at least you have a good base for comparison

 

[Flying Scotsman]

Still sticking with car 3.
Unlike some people, I look at the condition of a vehicle not how big a folder of paperwork is. Or if someone has changed a gearknob or alloys.... (LOL @ Neil :roll: )
If you can afford them all, don't choose on price, If you want as low mileage as possible go on that.
But I would say, go and have a look. Have a peak at the last two MOT certs and look for advsiories or failures etc.
Look at the components on the car, rust etc, drive the car, any unsual sounds?

You really cant decide by an advert as some vehicles are too close to call...

Slightly a hypocrit as I chose off an advert... But I'm pretty dumb and impulsive...

 

[da8gizmo]

So I went back to look at car #3 for a more thorough inspection. My first visit was kinda rushed and I caught up in the excitement of seeing the car..
On my first visit I thought that the seller was being really kind by opening the door for me to climb in. But last night I discovered that he probably did this to hide the fact that the locks don't work! I sprung a surprise visit on him and so when he arrived he had to confess and then proceeded to climb through the boot to open the door!
He said he'd obviously knock some money off the price. Apparently a local garage had quoted him £140 to replace all the locks.

Also, and I'm not sure how on earth I managed to miss this the first, but there was no rear view mirror!

Other than that the car was great. There was a small 'bubbly' patch on the right rear arch where it looks like some rust has been repaired, but the rest of the car was immaculate.
He had about 5 MOT certificates that all seemed to tally up correctly.

I'm going back to have another thorough look at #2 tonight and then will probably make a decision.

Is it acceptable to ask the seller to rectify these items before buying? or is it better to knock the price down and then sort them out myself?

Thanks again for all the help guys.

Dan

 

[Flying Scotsman]

See you never can tell eh... If you go simply off and advert and what someone says... you might miss things.
Well done on the surprise visit and finding out about the locks!
What is actually wrong with the locks?

Hope car 2 comes off better for you!

 

[mix2000]

Car 2 sounds the best.
Ask the garage to remove the timing belt cover, they may have to turn the engine manually,
(they'll do it if they have nothing to hide k: ) and take note of the numbering and manufacturer on the belt.

Email the manufacturer the complete set of numbers to their support section of their website, and they normally get back to you with the age of manufacture within 24 hrs.
The manufacture date shouldn't be more than 3 yrs old, or if the print is worn off or illegible, it wasn't changed recently and walk away (If they lie about a timing belt.... :fists: )

 

[da8gizmo]

Well the remote didn't work (maybe just a battery) and when I put it in and turned it either way, it just didn't open the locks.
Only putting the key in the boot lock worked and so he had to climb through and manually open the door.
Oh and now that I remember, the electric windows were both quite slow and the passenger one actually got stuck for about 2 mins..

If I'm standing at the nose of the car looking into the engine bay, where should I be looking for the timing belt?
Down the left side?

Thanks

 

[red]

Yes the left side but you won't see it without removing the cover.

 

[da8gizmo]

So I went and saw #2 again last night....

...and here she is!

Just a quick pic I took this morning on my phone

She drives beautifully and is in pretty good condition.
I'll do another thread with some more pics and full description when I get home later.

Here's a pic of the key plus a clue to something interesting I found out when going through the service history and receipts...

Thanks again for all of your help guys!

Dan

 

[The Arch Bishop]

Looks very nice! Loving the props!

 

[F2eeman]

Bluefin remap per chance? :lol: