Dangerous amounts of rust?

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mamen
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Dangerous amounts of rust?

Postby mamen » Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:43 pm

Here is the background story of my second and current Puma. I got my Puma a year ago, registered in 1999 and now has 170000 km or 100000 miles on it, it had some rust in the sills and rear wheel arches, no big deal as it was expected and easy to fix. Now after a year with desperately needed TLC and costly repairs all around, I was finally going to get rid of that rust.

From the outside it generally looks very nice, no dents or anything, just the rust in the rear wheel arches that is visible. The inside or below is a different story. By the plates it has been living in Bergen, Norway for quite a while, the wettest most rainy city in the world or something. The left side is worse than the right, I guess that there is more splashing of water and salt in the winter as we drive on the right side (as in not left :P) of the road.

Anyway, it passed the MOT a while ago, with the exception of structural rust damage at the rear end of the left sill, it was an easy fix. But after my recent findings I am getting a bit concerned about the structural integrity. I will now try to add some pictures (my second post in this forum, not sure how it works)...

First I fixed the rust in right rear wheel arch:
pumarustwheelarch2.jpg


I might as well get rid of some surface rust with the rear bumper removed, poking with a screwdriver:
pumarustnotsurfacerust.jpg


Okay, so what is on the inside? Poking around some more, I removed all of the weld points around something more structural (seen from inside the rear wheel arch and towards the rear, now with the bumper on):
pumarustweldpointsgone.jpg


With a pile of rust on the floor, there isn't much keeping the panels togheter:
pumarustinsidereararch.jpg


Same location, from below:
pumarustfrombelow.jpg


This is a fix I did some months ago to pass the MOT. Rear end of the left sill, everything that is cut away is to get to fresh steel (a lot):
pumarustleftsill.jpg


Based on the difference between the sills, I believe the inside of the left rear wheel arch is twice as bad as on the right side, I don't even want to look.

Is this too much rust? Dangerously much?
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tuonokid
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Dangerous amounts of rust?

Postby tuonokid » Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:52 pm

Yeah the chassis rail near the rear beam mount has had it, time for the scrapyard.
Barry
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RICHARD MANSFIELD2
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Dangerous amounts of rust?

Postby RICHARD MANSFIELD2 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:49 pm

Hi
Anything is repairable at a certain cost. If it was one of the last ten Puma's left there would be no question about throwing money at it. If you throw money at it now it may be one of the last ten Puma's left. Besides you scrap it spend more money on another car which you could have spent on the Puma. Just my thoughts. I know I will always throw money at mine , I have never owned such a fantastic car that gives so many grins per gallon.
Regards
Richard
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mamen
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Dangerous amounts of rust?

Postby mamen » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:57 pm

I've had the same thoughts exactly. Especially that about the rarity of this car, at least here in Norway I rarely find any Puma's for sale anymore, the few ones I have seen the past year has been so abused or has so much rust in the wheel arches that it's not even worth considering, it's just the tip of the iceberg from the images. And yes, it has been costly, I have even sourced down several original parts from Ford. The plan was all along to get this car to it's former glory, I have come a long way except the rust issues. The problem now is that even if I have the skills and equipment to deal with the rust, I do not have the time, I use this car on daily basis, and I do not have the space for another one. And indeed, I love this car, as my first Puma, I cannot imagine having anything else.

But I am still wondering if I am driving around in something hazardous...
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tuonokid
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Dangerous amounts of rust?

Postby tuonokid » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:14 pm

Hi Mate
I hope I didn't sound too brutal the first time but as I said if the chassis rail has gone as badly as yours has there's not much holding the back axle on. Compound this with the fact that once the back axle is taken off to do the repair there is nothing left at the rear of the car to jack it up in the air. I am in the process of stripping down a 2002 thunder for spares as I consider it too far gone and it's a lot better than yours.
Barry
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2001 ColOrado red Puma 1.7, work in progress.
Westfield SEIW 1800 Zetec.
Building Westfield SEI 2.0 Zetec Blacktop on TBs.
Fiesta Style 1.25
Aprilia Tuono Factory.
1975 Yamaha TY80
Now working on my sons Anglia 105e

My Project Link - viewtopic.php?f=64&t=23509

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Frank
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Dangerous amounts of rust?

Postby Frank » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:07 pm

mamen wrote:Source of the post Is this too much rust? Dangerously much?

mamen wrote:Source of the post But I am still wondering if I am driving around in something hazardous...

Yes.

What you do about that situation is your choice and, fascinating as all that is, is a different question.

But, the answer to your actual questions...is yes. I also think you already know that. ;)
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mamen
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Dangerous amounts of rust?

Postby mamen » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:16 pm

Thank you Barry for your explanation.

I don't know, maybe I knew, but didn't want to accept it. It's sad. I will just have to look for another Puma with less rust and just start over. What ever the cost, at least my experience remains making it easier next time, and what to look for.

Thank you for all your feedback.
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RICHARD MANSFIELD2
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Dangerous amounts of rust?

Postby RICHARD MANSFIELD2 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:23 pm

Hi,
Have you thought about sourcing a Puma from another country and finding a body shell. From previous posts contributed by Puma enthusiast in various countries the costs,tariffs and taxation can be sky high.Would that be too prohibitive for you, just a thought.
I do not envy you on your quest.
Regards,
Richard.
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mamen
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Dangerous amounts of rust?

Postby mamen » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:02 pm

That is a good suggestion. I found some candidates and checked the estimated tax for importing to be about £2200 in addition to the price of the car itself. The car taxes in Norway are insane. I knew a guy that got around that issue by splitting the chassis in half and imported them as car parts as there are no taxes on car parts, ironically. I am not considering doing that...

I will just have to continue looking around until I find something, I guess it will end up being a project anyway, I would love to have one restored to mint condition and keep that way for the future.
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Frank
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Dangerous amounts of rust?

Postby Frank » Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:16 am

mamen wrote:Source of the postI don't know, maybe I knew, but didn't want to accept it. It's sad. I will just have to look for another Puma with less rust and just start over.

Well, I reckon you'll have to accept that it's dangerous as it is, but that doesn't automatically mean that you'll have to scrap the car. That's what we would do in the UK, but things are different here. There are less Pumas around here than, say, 5 years ago, but they are still not rare and (because I'm looking at an ad atm) I could, for example, replace yours for £400 - 102,000 miles on the clock, 11 months MOT with no advisories and a good MOT history of no corrosion/welding. ....in other words, we would take the easy option, just because we can.

The situation in Norway is different - far fewer Pumas around and high import tax/tariff charges mean that repair or, far better, replacing defective parts might be the most cost effective option in your case. Just be aware that if your chassis rails are like that then there will be a lot of other areas that need attention as well.

However, it is the structural parts, that includes the sills, that take priority over everything else.
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mamen
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Dangerous amounts of rust?

Postby mamen » Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:23 pm

That makes sense. For the past year I have received notification for every Puma that was advertised, from a total of maybe 10-15 only one of them didn't have that tip of the ice berg with rust at the rear wheel arches, but still whatever the mileage the price was always around £1000. The one that looked decent had only 43,000 miles on it and the price was £2000. I considered it but it was gone in just a few days.

But OK, let's say, hypothetically, that I'm unable to find any Puma that is in a considerable better condition regarding rust. I remember many years ago when it was all about the Escort and I did quite a bit of restoration work, in fact I still have a rare 1982 Escort XR3 (carburetor) that has been stored away for 12 years with loads of replacement parts such as sills, rails etc that I easily got from some third party manufacturer. I haven't found such replacement parts for Puma, would I need to fabricate these parts myself?
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