Puma running rough?

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Coldcut
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Puma running rough?

Post by Coldcut » Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:43 pm

Hi all,
i drove down the motorway this morning and after around 50 miles the car suddenly started running rough as if it was running on 3 cylinders
I carefully drove it back home,checked the oil,fluids,did an ECU reset.
Started the car back up after disconnecting the battery for 1 hour but it still sounded rough and there was quite a lot of whiteish smoke was coming out of the exhaust when i gave it slight revs for the ECU reset.
I didn't risk driving it around at it was started to cut out once i took my foot of the revs.
The fluid was normal.
The oil seemed ok,didn't look creamy inside or on the cap and it didn't look like there was any water getting in the oil,looked normal.
I put new plugs last month.
Fuel filter changed December 2017
Oil change and filters 1 month ago.
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Post by red » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:21 am

Could be the coil pack.. Probably still worth checking spark plugs
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Coldcut
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Puma running rough?

Post by Coldcut » Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:11 pm

red wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:21 am
Could be the coil pack.. Probably still worth checking spark plugs
Thanks Red,
I removed all the plugs and leads and tested with a multimeter, seemed OK.
One plug was caked black in the 2nd cylinder but my car does burn a lot of oil as its done 160,00.
Anyway I cleaned them all up hoping for a slight improvement but still idled rough like it's running on 3 cylinders.
What's the quickest way to check the coil pack?
I've got the car booked in at the garage to be looked at in the morning so I'm going to just call the breakdown in the morning and if he can't diagnose anything, then I'll get him to take my car on the back.
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Puma running rough?

Post by Van_Dammesque » Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:45 pm

If you ask Halrford to do a free battery check they also do the coil pack.
Try cleaning ICV too.
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Puma running rough?

Post by Coldcut » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:04 am

It's at the garage,breakdown guy said it's misfiring and said it could be the coil pack as it was sparking ok.
Worse case scenario, what if the engine was knackered on one of the cylinders, what would be the cost?
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Puma running rough?

Post by Van_Dammesque » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:48 am

Not sure but I'd think a new engine would be in order? £400 for a good one, make sure you get the electronics loom too. Someone with better knowledge than me able to help!
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Post by DOH » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:52 pm

1) Do a compression test on no 2 cylinder
2) What was your resistance reading with your multi meter for each of the 4 leads?
3) Do you have the earlier coilpack and if so did you gap the plugs to 1.3mm?
4) Depending upon the results of the compression test , it might be a stuck oil control ring which can often be freed off without dismantling the engine :thumbs:
5) Resistance readings can also be taken to establish if the coilpack is faulty before you purchase a replacement. Take a look on youtube on how to do this :thumbs:
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Puma running rough?

Post by Coldcut » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:09 pm

Ok update,
The engine is knackered,no compression on cylinder 2.
I dont think its a good idea for me to waste money having it fixed as its done 160,000 and i don't know what damage has been caused.
So i think my best option is to find another engine to drop in.
My puma is a 1.7 Year 1999,
so would and puma 1.7 engine going upto 2002 still be fully compatible?
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Puma running rough?

Post by dai090 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:22 pm

Yea I think any 1.7 engine will fit in :) but engines from cars with air con do have a different power steering set up. But that can be swapped over easily enough I think? So be wary of that. But try and make sure that the engine you are putting in is in good nick :) and whist its out replace the cambelt water pump and aux belt. I would do it regardless even if it has been done recently. At least it'll give you piece mind knowing its been done. Last thing you want is something going wrong with it. Ohhhh and also think about changing the clutch too whilst the box is off. Well unless that has been done recently too.
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Post by Coldcut » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:11 pm

dai090 wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:22 pm
Yea I think any 1.7 engine will fit in :) but engines from cars with air con do have a different power steering set up. But that can be swapped over easily enough I think? So be wary of that. But try and make sure that the engine you are putting in is in good nick :) and whist its out replace the cambelt water pump and aux belt. I would do it regardless even if it has been done recently. At least it'll give you piece mind knowing its been done. Last thing you want is something going wrong with it. Ohhhh and also think about changing the clutch too whilst the box is off. Well unless that has been done recently too.
Thanks.
What about the ECU and the wiring etc,is that all the same set up or are there different ECU'S and wiring looms etc in diffaent model years?
Yes the clutch was changed about 3 months ago.
And yes i would get the cambelt done,take the rest of the bits of done whilst the engine is out.
If anyone has got an engine for sale let me know,as long as it not high mileage.
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Post by PH03NIX » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:21 pm

Thanks.
What about the ECU and the wiring etc,is that all the same set up or are there different ECU'S and wiring looms etc in diffaent model years?
Yes the clutch was changed about 3 months ago.
And yes i would get the cambelt done,take the rest of the bits of done whilst the engine is out.
If anyone has got an engine for sale let me know,as long as it not high mileage.
[/quote]

((MY INPUT))
As already said, any 1.7 engine itself will drop in, difference only in A/C & powersteering up..
Don't worry about ECU and wiring keep everything in its place
Have your current clutch put in new engine... (personally I would keep 'gearbox' unless guaranteed low mileage on the next)

There is currently a company on eBay offering few so called low mileage 1.7's for around £160 minus the flywheel (with a little 3 month guarantee)... I have personally recently brought and fitted an engine from them with no issues!

Personally I say REBUILD as many that are for sale are actually high mileage and haven't been tendered to over time..
I had one under 100k head gasket went... needed valve seals and a good decorating inside another around 150ish valve seals gone but looked sweat inside!...
Parts for a head build ain't 'that hard' to find as some may say.
(Easier said when not paying the labour cost....sorry)
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Puma running rough?

Post by Coldcut » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:02 am

PH03NIX wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:21 pm
Thanks.
What about the ECU and the wiring etc,is that all the same set up or are there different ECU'S and wiring looms etc in diffaent model years?
Yes the clutch was changed about 3 months ago.
And yes i would get the cambelt done,take the rest of the bits of done whilst the engine is out.
If anyone has got an engine for sale let me know,as long as it not high mileage.
((MY INPUT))
As already said, any 1.7 engine itself will drop in, difference only in A/C & powersteering up..
Don't worry about ECU and wiring keep everything in its place
Have your current clutch put in new engine... (personally I would keep 'gearbox' unless guaranteed low mileage on the next)

There is currently a company on eBay offering few so called low mileage 1.7's for around £160 minus the flywheel (with a little 3 month guarantee)... I have personally recently brought and fitted an engine from them with no issues!

Personally I say REBUILD as many that are for sale are actually high mileage and haven't been tendered to over time..
I had one under 100k head gasket went... needed valve seals and a good decorating inside another around 150ish valve seals gone but looked sweat inside!...
Parts for a head build ain't 'that hard' to find as some may say.
(Easier said when not paying the labour cost....sorry)
[/quote]

Thanks PH03NIX for your input.
So the air con and power steering set up, this is what I need to know about?
What are the problems?
Mine does have air con.
I'm not even sure if all 1.7 pumas do have air con fitted as standard?
What if the donor engine isn't air con, is that still a problem?
If i get the Reg. No. I can check the mileage online but I suppose I would still need to see the log book of the car it came out of for the engine number?
To verify that engine actually came out of that car on that registration and not another car and the donor engine is really a lot more miles?
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Puma running rough?

Post by red » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:48 am

I didn't think the actual block had anything to do with aircon setup but I could be wrong?

There were definitely different blocks throughout production and different ECUs but it was my understanding (never tested) that you could do a like for like swap of the actual engine
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Post by Coldcut » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:00 am

red wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:48 am
I didn't think the actual block had anything to do with aircon setup but I could be wrong?

There were definitely different blocks throughout production and different ECUs but it was my understanding (never tested) that you could do a like for like swap of the actual engine
Thanks Red, i hope so, I just need as much information as possible about the engine swap as it will be the garage doing it, so who better to ask than the good folks on here.
I don't want to buy an engine then find out that I needed all the wiring and ecu and other bits and bobs for it to work.
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Post by YOG » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:55 am

I would contact Ian G on here. He breaks Puma's, and I believe he can tell you what the engine mileage is of the cars they come out of.
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Post by Coldcut » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:15 am

YOG wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:55 am
I would contact Ian G on here. He breaks Puma's, and I believe he can tell you what the engine mileage is of the cars they come out of.
Thanks YOG!
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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:56 pm

Coldcut wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:09 pm
The engine is knackered,no compression on cylinder 2.
where is the leak? On piston or valve side? Try to pressurise the second cylinder and watch where is the compression going. If it is the sump, it is the piston/rings that are leaking. If it is escaping to inlet, it is inlet valves, if it is going to exhaust, it is the exhaust valves...
If the coolant starts boiling, it is the head gasket. I would personally try to locate the problem: if it is only head gasket, it is fairly minor problem...
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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:58 pm

red wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:48 am
I didn't think the actual block had anything to do with aircon setup but I could be wrong?

There were definitely different blocks throughout production and different ECUs but it was my understanding (never tested) that you could do a like for like swap of the actual engine
The casts are all the same alright and all are interchageable as far as the installing into the car goes. There were different looms and PCM's (ECU's) running it but the engines are the same
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Post by Coldcut » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:29 am

Wild E. Coyote wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:56 pm
Coldcut wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:09 pm
The engine is knackered,no compression on cylinder 2.
where is the leak? On piston or valve side? Try to pressurise the second cylinder and watch where is the compression going. If it is the sump, it is the piston/rings that are leaking. If it is escaping to inlet, it is inlet valves, if it is going to exhaust, it is the exhaust valves...
If the coolant starts boiling, it is the head gasket. I would personally try to locate the problem: if it is only head gasket, it is fairly minor problem...
I will ask the garage that did the test as i don't know the actual set up they used.
I was just told there was no compression in cylinder 2.
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Post by PH03NIX » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:21 am

red wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:48 am
I didn't think the actual block had anything to do with aircon setup but I could be wrong?

There were definitely different blocks throughout production and different ECUs but it was my understanding (never tested) that you could do a like for like swap of the actual engine
In fact you are right.
The 'installation' of engine may be different (regarding pulleys, belt and piping) all 1.7 engines are 90-95% the same!!
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Post by Coldcut » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:02 pm

Hopefully I'll get my puma back within a week or so with another engine fitted plus some new bits,
Timing belt
Water pump etc.
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