Intermittent Noise

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Joined
Aug 15, 2015
Messages
75
Location
Bath, Somerset.
In urgent need of advice!

I've already posted about this in the service and repair thread but feel it's definitely more of a "Help!" related issue now.

Since buying my 1.7 Puma back in August, I've had an odd, concerning noise that happens occasionally which is still yet to be diagnosed. As it happens intermittently, it's very hard to try and get a recording of it for my mechanic to have a listen to. The best way to describe the noise is that it sort of sounds like driving over a cattle grid - there is also some vibration with this.

Myself and my partner thought we had it pinned down to what it might have been, we noticed the noise was coming from the back drivers side and whenever the noise appeared I could feel some vibration feedback off the brake pedal. It was originally only doing it in low gears however it started doing it in high gears now as well. We figured it could be something to do with the back drum brakes so we took it back to my mates dad for him to have a look at. He retensioned the handbrake and said that it could be due to the rusting on the drum brakes and the fact the handbrake wasn't tensioned enough could have caused some rubbing which would have caused the noise. Seemed legit!

Was driving around quite happily for 2 to 3 weeks, no sign of the noise and then it started doing it again :-( again it's still intermittent but have noticed it most after parking on a hill or driving around town centres and she only ever does it at slow speeds. Some times it will happen once for about 5 seconds and that's it, other times it's happened about 5 times within a few minutes of each other. There's no performance issue with the car when it happens, she still runs fine and no jerks to indicate that it could be a gear/clutch issue. The disc brakes on the front have also recently been replaced by the previous owner. I have also noticed a ticking coming from the engine when idle, can only be heard if you're outside of the car. When it ticks, it seems to drop a few hundred revs then goes back up - I don't know if this is a normal thing for Pumas but thought I'd mention it in case it helps with any diagnostics just in case it may be related in any way.

I'm hopefully going to get hold of my mechanic later on and try and drop it off to him at the weekend and let him drive around in her for a week. I just wanted some feedback from other Puma owners what it could possibly be so I can mention it to him so he can check it all. Obviously I'm hoping the noise happens when he drives her and he'll know exactly what it is by that but unfortunately until then I'm at a loss!!

I'm determined to get this issue resolved as she's my first car and is pretty much perfect apart from this problem and a few minor things that come with having a 15 year old car! I want to try and keep her on the road as long as possible so any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Hi
I have also responded on your other thread and reading through this I am back to thinking that this is an ABS problem.
You say you can feel it through the brake pedal, this must mean that it happens when applying the brake.
Whenever the brakes are applied, the ABS system monitors the rotational pulses coming in from all four wheel sensors. If one of them is 'slower' than the others, it thinks that the wheel is about to lock up so the ABS kicks in. This is a very quick on and off application of the brakes and feels like a vibration through the brake pedal.
It is louder than the normal self test and it is not easy to pinpoint where the noise is coming from.
A rolling diagnostic test would point you to which wheel sensor is at fault. I suspect that it will be a sensor that has been disturbed or damaged by the recent work on the brakes etc.
Paul
 
Thank you, Paul.

I'm hoping that you're right!

The only issue is that it doesn't happen when braking, I only noticed the vibration off the break pedal when I had my foot over the brake as I was about to push down on the pedal. If it is the ABS, would it do this without the brakes being applied?
 
The ABS only becomes active when the brake pedal switch is activated. So even if you're not pushing down on the pedal it could still operate the switch and make the ABS kick in.
I'm not 100% certain that this is your problem, but it does sound like it could be.
 
748 said:
[post]346281[/post] The ABS only becomes active when the brake pedal switch is activated. So even if you're not pushing down on the pedal it could still operate the switch and make the ABS kick in.
I'm not 100% certain that this is your problem, but it does sound like it could be.

I'm hoping that's what it is and can hopefully be an easy fix! Did you mention previously that the ABS light should come on the dash if that is the issue? She hasn't done it to me since being made aware of that, so I haven't been able to check whether the light comes on or not. Hopefully if I tell my mechanic where the noise sounds like it's coming from and the ABS is suspected then he should give her a thorough once over.

Do you think there's also a possibility it may be that the back drum brakes need replacing? Especially if they're old and rusting. If it is the ABS, maybe the rust is causing it to be louder than usual? I am no expert on this at all so I'm just throwing suggestions out there in case it's a possibility.
 
The ABS dashboard light will only come on in the event of a system fault, failed self test, or a faulty sensor.
It sounds like yours could actually be doing what it should by activating the ABS in response to a bad signal from a misaligned sensor.
As I've said, I could be barking up the wrong tree :lol: It just sounds like an ABS issue from how you describe it.
Don't worry too much about rusty looking rear drums, most of them look like that.
Paul
 
748 said:
[post]346285[/post] The ABS dashboard light will only come on in the event of a system fault, failed self test, or a faulty sensor.
It sounds like yours could actually be doing what it should by activating the ABS in response to a bad signal from a misaligned sensor.
As I've said, I could be barking up the wrong tree :lol: It just sounds like an ABS issue from how you describe it.
Don't worry too much about rusty looking rear drums, most of them look like that.
Paul

It does sound plausible and like I said I'm really hoping you're right. I'll mention what you described to my mechanic and hope we get somewhere with it at last. At least this time round I've got more to go by!

I really appreciate your input in this and if it turns out to be what you think it is then I will be eternally grateful :)
 
I replied in your other thread just now but reading this thread now I also think it may be the ABS trying to sort itself out. If any of the tone rings/sensors have been disturbed then it'll keep trying to calibrate itself or activate incorrectly. Simply having bent a ring even slightly so it's not completely flat or having a bit of crap on one of the sensors could have the ABS not operate or go doo-lally.
Worth a check as easy to do.
 
So I finally got a recording of the noise...and then my partners stupid phone lost it when he went to trim the sound clip :x (more reason for me to despise Iphones!)

To make up for it, my partner did manage to come across this video on youtube

http://youtu.be/-bwAtkotCjw

Different car making the exact same sound. You can hear it properly at around the 30 second mark but make sure you have the bass down on your speakers as the noise of the engine and the keys rattling about get in the way - definitely can hear it better through a phone speaker.

More things pointing towards the ABS! I've spoken to my mates dad and he's going to have a word with his mate at the Garage about it, so hopefully I can get her in soon and this issue finally resolved!
 
We got a recording!!!!

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0lbZWM1Jjmc

It kicks in at 5-6 seconds.

The recording was sent to my mechanic a week ago and still waiting on a response, so in the meantime if anyone here can tell what it is by the noise then I would be grateful.

I still believe it's the ABS after watching a few youtube videos as it sounds like the pump vibrating, but maybe someone else may think it could be something else after listening to the clip. I'm just trying to eliminate any other possibilities so I can just take her in and say look, I think this is the problem.

I mentioned to my mechanic that it's thought to be the ABS, however it was dismissed almost straight away without the ABS even being looked at. I've actually been waiting over a month to find out when I can get her looked at. I'm starting to think I may take her else where as I'm not bothered on how much it's going to cost me now, I just want it sorted as I'm going to need my car for work soon.
 
A front sensor (most probably the one to blame) is nowadays to be had for tenner, and the rear (comes only in pair) for 20-ish GBP.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1311.R1.TR2.TRC1.A0.H0.Xford+puma+ABS+.TRS0&_nkw=ford+puma+abs+sensor&_sacat=0

The swap is easy, BUT: they will be rusted in like hell. For the front you have to be VERY careful not to deform the tone ring (as you will be removing the sensor behind it).

If it the rear, I would suggest removing the drum and then pushing it out with a hammer. Before you put in the new one(s), dremel the opening a bit to clean it from the rust and then just push it back to its position as it is very sensitive. It has to be properly in all the way, or it won't work as it should.

Do NOT ATTEMPT to remove the bolt holding it without a proper socket (I think it is 8 mm) or you will round it and then it will become sh...y business. Since it has been on the car for 15+ years, a wrench won't do: get a PROPER socket

I would suggest diagnosing it first, as it could be that your ABS module went south in which case I wouldn't recommend to try doing it yourself
 
Wild E. Coyote said:
[post]347744[/post] A front sensor (most probably the one to blame) is nowadays to be had for tenner, and the rear (comes only in pair) for 20-ish GBP.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1311.R1.TR2.TRC1.A0.H0.Xford+puma+ABS+.TRS0&_nkw=ford+puma+abs+sensor&_sacat=0

The swap is easy, BUT: they will be rusted in like hell. For the front you have to be VERY careful not to deform the tone ring (as you will be removing the sensor behind it).

If it the rear, I would suggest removing the drum and then pushing it out with a hammer. Before you put in the new one(s), dremel the opening a bit to clean it from the rust and then just push it back to its position as it is very sensitive. It has to be properly in all the way, or it won't work as it should.

Do NOT ATTEMPT to remove the bolt holding it without a proper socket (I think it is 8 mm) or you will round it and then it will become sh...y business. Since it has been on the car for 15+ years, a wrench won't do: get a PROPER socket

I would suggest diagnosing it first, as it could be that your ABS module went south in which case I wouldn't recommend to try doing it yourself

This is some great advice, thank you so much!

I definitely won't be doing it myself, I won't even let my boyfriend touch it. Anything brake related I'm going to leave to the professionals!
 
ABS sensor replacement is really not big problem. The ABS module, on the other hand, is not so easy as it could trap air and then it can develop into a problem (you would have to visit a Ford dealer to purge the air out of it)
 
Unfortunately this is one of the downsides of running an older car.
Anybody who can drive a spanner and is not averse to a bit of tinkering could probably fix this quite cheaply. But when you have to start factoring in a professional mechanic's time then it can be really expensive.
As I've previously said, when this all comes out it will probably be down to one of the sensors, but as Wild E Coyote has pointed out, it is not simply a matter of plugging a new one in due to 15/16 years of corrosion.
I hope you can get it sorted without too much expense.
Paul
 
Yeah I know, this is originally why my mates dad was looking into it as his mate was able to do a few things on the cheap for us before when I first got the car. However we've been on to him about it for 2 months now and nothing is getting done about it, they've not even had it in to just look at the possible issue to confirm it :roll: I need to book in for my driving test soon and can't have the car make this noise at me during my test in fear of them failing me for it, my MOT is also next month and need a couple of things doing to make sure she gets through it. If we don't get a response this weekend then unfortunately I'll have to go elsewhere and probably spend a lot more getting things done.

It is causing a few arguments between my partner and I as I'm willing to spend the money to get her sorted as I want to keep her on the road for as long as possible. Where as my partner is saying that if it's going to cost more than the car is worth then I might as well buy another car, only problem is what's to say that another car isn't going to have problems that I have to spend more money on? I've already had a few things done to her as it is and I know what other things need doing, apart from what is suspected to be the ABS she drives amazingly well, my partner has even admitted this. Until the day comes when either the car doesn't start or the engine dies, that's when I'll throw my hands in the air :lol: !
 
You can get one of those eBay OBD readers and do diagnose for yourself.

This is the one I am using: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ELM327-OBD2-OBDII-CAN-BUS-USB-Auto-Diagnostic-Code-Scanner-Reader-Tool-V1-5-UK-/181648381328?hash=item2a4b165590:g:CGYAAOSw8cNUP5MR

After that, you go to www.forscan.org (it is free!), install it on your laptop and you can do it yourself and find out what is wrong. After that you are already 80% done
 
Wild E. Coyote said:
[post]348008[/post] You can get one of those eBay OBD readers and do diagnose for yourself.

This is the one I am using: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ELM327-OBD2-OBDII-CAN-BUS-USB-Auto-Diagnostic-Code-Scanner-Reader-Tool-V1-5-UK-/181648381328?hash=item2a4b165590:g:CGYAAOSw8cNUP5MR

After that, you go to http://www.forscan.org (it is free!), install it on your laptop and you can do it yourself and find out what is wrong. After that you are already 80% done

This is great, thank you! :grin:
 
I can vouch for what Sinisa (Wild E) says I bought the scanner and was donated a laptop (thanks James) and the Forscan diagnosed my ABS fault. Well worth it!
Barry
 

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