The .AleX. 's Puma [France]

Hello from France and sorry for my poor english

I've bought a Puma one month ago and I've started a 'full servicing' on it.



This is a 2001 October model, with 1.7L and 160oooKm, I'm 40 and this is my first 'Fun and sport car' !

Because of minimal maintenance on it, I have not yet really use it...
According to documents provided with the car, the timing belt have not be replaced since the car was produced !

I'll replace it tomorrow !

By the way, I've already made some servicing :
cheap 10W40 'non name' oil from supermarcket replaced by Castrol 5W30
coolant liquid was.. water ! Replaced by pink one
front brake disc totally out of wear, replaced by Brembo new one.
brake fluid totally replaced too (and for clutch of course)
lot of minor things

For french speakers, my major thread is on "Planète Puma" forum http://www.planetepuma.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6809


Many thanks to all peoples here for thread with a lot of good information for this lovely car

Welcome to the site, glad to hear that you are enjoying your Puma and you're getting it nicely serviced.

Have fun

Welcome matey,where are you in Frogland?

gingerdave said:

[post]352834[/post] Welcome matey,where are you in Frogland?

Click to expand...

Arf, in the center, near Clermont-Ferrand, but I don't eat frogs

So, today I've started the timing belt... what a sh|t !!!

Is somebody knows the name of the Ford guy responsible of screws positions ? I want to kiss him.... with a 41mm wrench ! (the one required for the right engine support)

The timing belt itself is not a so big problem, but to remove the plastic cover you have to remove so many things !
To get access to the 'centering pin' you have to remove the right transmission
To remove the 3 screw for the steering pump support you need 3 different wrench... same bolt size, but different length !

So, I hope than the next part (re-assembly) will be easier and I expect to crank it soon...

Hi
If you haven't done a cam belt change on this engine before and haven't read Ford TIS and Gates Technical bulletin #036 for the cambelt change I would strongly recommend that you don't proceed with this. It's easy to get it wrong and wreck your engine and if you're doing it with the engine in place you will need certain special tools.
Barry

Yes i agree with barry get someone to help you who has changed a puma timing belt before there must be someone near you or to be safe take it to the garage like me and pay £300 it hurts but its worth it in the long run,good luck.

Welcome to the owners club!

From another newcomer, welcome!
If I may break an unwritten rule and lapse into French for a moment... Ne vous inquiétez pas - on vous comprend parfaitement! Votre anglais est bien sûr meilleur que notre français!

Some news about the 'incredible Zetec 1.7L Timing operation'

Wednesday in the afternoon:
So, first timing belt replacement done !
But, something is strange... the air intake sound is not as usual, and when I accelerate the engine, there is some delay to get more rpm... And idle is moving around 1000/1100 RPM.
In my brain >> .o0(So, after two days without battery, the ECU need to re-calibrate itself....)

Then, after 50 meters, during the shift change, the engine stops :?
No abnormal sound, but the MIL light is present :roll:

Ok, visual check of the engine, nothing seem abnormal, all connectors correctly fitted.. WTF !

Too late to check more !

Thursday in the morning :
The night was very bad, a lot of questions in my head !
Is the Gates kit is not correctly installed (Bulletin #36 instructions hard to apply in the ridiculous place)
Is the damper pulley is not correctly fitted ? (40N.m it's easy, but the '+ 90°' can not be reached for me)
Is my timing set pin have the correct size ?
Is the VCT system is faulty.. ?

After the coffee , first step : check for damage !
In case of contact between valves and pistons, the best way is to find a new engine !
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8FUmAOhj1A[/youtube]

No damage !

I've measured the #1 Cyl positioning pin, the normal size should be 38,55mm, mine is near 38,6mm

I've do an ECU fault code check too : P0340 - Camshaft Position Sensor Circuit Bank 1

OK, the more probable cause is a bad timing for 'air intake valve's camshaft' (the sensor target is on this camshaft)

The first time was a pain, but now all screws/bolts are cleaned, the second time is not so hard

The result with a picture :


And the winner is : VTC system not correctly adjusted before camshaft alignment !

Normally, the camshaft VTC pulley is spring loaded
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQx0sLhDR-E[/youtube]



This is the most tricky point but, with the belt installed and the valves effect on the camshaft, you can not feel the good position like on this short movie !!


I've found a tip to do it....


After loosing the camshaft plug, unscrew the bolt, but keep it with friction.
Move the camshaft over the VTC travel, and replace it aligned to the rule before torque the bolt again.
Without friction, there is no index to know if the VTC system position, and the rule can be introduced in the camshaft with an incorrect timing
With friction on the bolt, you can feel the VTC limits, and you can set it correctly.

Because I have not enough time to perform a full timing, I've only adjusted the air intake one, using the exhaust camshaft as reference, just to try.
The engine have started and run better than the first try


It is not perfect yet, but now I'm waiting for the camshaft cover seal, I'll do the full timing before reassembly the engine.

Do you remember...

.AleX. said:

[post]352825[/post]
According to documents provided with the car, the timing belt have not be replaced since the car was produced !

Click to expand...

The more fun about this is than the belt I've removed was in very good condition !
And I've found some marks on the damper pulley, proofing to me than the belt have already be replaced, probably at the first requirement.

By the way, I've just 'lost' 10ooo Km on the normal next timing belt replacement, but I've learn so much on this engine...

A friend will have to replace the timing belt on his car too, it will be so easy now

Alex
If you can't achieve the torque settings for the crankshaft bolt(which you can't without the special tools) and you can't tension the cambelt in line with Gates #036 you WILL wreck your engine! Please don't try to do your friends cambelt as well as you will wreck his engine.
Barry

tuonokid sorry, but I'm doesn't listening to advise from people who's never meet me :wink:

I've worked in sport boats during my holidays when I was young, I'm aircraft engineer since 1994 for engines and systems, I'm graduated in aircraft avionics systems (electronic) since 1998 : I've some background :lol:

So, for my 1.7L, it's running now. Because I can't spent enough time to works on it, I have not yet re-install all others things to drive it on road, but the engine sound is now better than previously.

When I've test the car to buy it, and during the road for home return, the 125ch was not effective with the temp gauge in normal range.

During this period, because of the timing belt not replaced, I've get it in low RPM range, with gear shift at 3000 revs.

in this conditions, when the car is 'cold' (the temperature gauge just below 25% of the range), I'm feeling the power : in first and second gear the tires 'stalls', but the power goes down after that.

Another symptom, the idle speed goes down after pedal release, and then is not regulated correctly (RPM moves between 800/900 RPMs)

I've checked lamda probe with a ELM327 like interface (DS150), but the software doesn't indicate wich probe is measured...

The voltages values seems good, but I have read (somewhere I've forgotten) than lambda probes can be too long to get the oxygen ratio, and because of the delay, the regulation can not be performed correctly.

Do you have so feedback about this 'low power when normal temp range is reached' ?

.AleX. said:

[post]353261[/post]

Do you have so feedback about this 'low power when normal temp range is reached' ?

Click to expand...

I've had and still sometimes comes up that problem but not when it reaches normal temp, for me its when its cold...

Damn !!

Maybe you can try to merge our cars to get one good

So, for those told me to not do the timing belt by myself and to not try it for my friend...

After done it on my Puma, with a second round to fix the problem, I've explain all process to my friend.

He have done it and the result is :

Macford63 said:

Grâce au bonnes explications d'.AleX. j'ai pu mener a bien le changement de ma distribution.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwGcZXUR7BY[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ycOFRnVKjQ[/youtube]

Click to expand...

Note for the sound : there is a direct air induction and a modified exhaust line on his Puma, this is normal :twisted:

I must apologize to forum about bad understanding between some guys and me around the timing belt replacement.

My poor English is not helping me

The fact is this timing belt replacement is not as common as for a lot of car's engine.

This is a good thing to say to people to not do it.... without help or a very good understanding of this engine !!

So, I've also said "I'm doesn't listening to advise from people who's never meet me :wink:" (with a smiley) to tuonokid
This is not to fight against him, I've explained after than I'm an aircraft engineer, and so, because of my job, I have to refer to documentation/compute/understand all the days, and never follow the information from somebody without totally understanding the reason.

Another time, I'm apologize for the 'lost in translation', and kisses to tuonokid.

Hi Alex
No need for the kisses If I get the chance I warn anyone about doing the cambelt change as It's not easy and even if people read TIS and Gates TB #036 sometimes they don't understand or choose to disregard what is said so when I warned you in the first place I expected you to come back to me and ask why. To help you next time you may want to bend the pin on the tensioner as this;



Which gives you the room needed to pull out the pin in the correct two stages.
I hope you managed to achieve the correct torque on the crankshaft and the VCT pulley as they are critical. The force to apply the torque to the crankshaft pulley is enormous so I would be interested to see how you did it. Here's the set up I used to re-torque mine;



And here's what it took to achieve the torque, a 1.2m scaffold pole on the end of a 600mm knuckle bar and my considerable weight behind it!

What is the torque required, Barry? Just out of interest?!

Hi Ben I'm pretty sure it's as Alex states 40NM + 90 deg and also as he says the 90 deg takes loads of elbow grease.

In fact, I've never reach correctly the 40N.m + 90°, and I think there is a bug about this....

With an extra bar (not big as yours !) I've reached 'only' 40/45, but, before install the new bolt, I've used the old one to install the pulley, and have already applied an important torque on it (with the normal wrench key length, no extra bar).
So, if the pulley is already 'pressure installed', the pulley can not move as well.

In my experience, I've seen only on time a bolt with a torque as this level (more than 300N.m), on an aircraft wing...
This bolt was special manufacturing with special washers to place under head and delivered in foam to prevent any scratch, because with this stress level a minor scratch can evolve in a crack/break !



For the Ford/Gates bolt, this is a heavy one, but not at the same level, and my point of view is than too much torque on it is dangerous.

It have to be seriously torqued, that right, but something else is very important too : clean very carefully the parts before installation to get the best friction on the faces.

Hi Alex
You're absolutely right about cleaning the faces of the bolts/pulleys/sprockets as the bolt pushes on the vib damper onto the sprocket onto the crank but Gates and possibly Ford (TIS) state that the vib damper bolt torque setting is "critical". It is achievable but it is very heavy to get there so I hope you are right.
Barry