FRP Duratec Turbo Project!

Do you have a Puma that is a project? Do you want to track the progress with your own thread? Feel free to do it here.

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FRP Duratec Turbo Project!

Postby PumaNoob » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:00 pm

Hi all, i guess its time for me to start a new project. Ive been mulling it over now for a while, and i think its time to do it. I was going to do more to my green turbo 1.7, so started looking at the duratec, which seems to have more tuneability, and parts are alot easier to get hold of. Then i thought, nah, the standard puma would not do justice to the engine i want to build, so i went and brought an FRP.

I know this might not be to everybodys liking, but i want to give it the power i think it should have came with in the first place, the power this car deserves!

As always, any comments are welcome, good or bad, but keep it civil!!

Here are some photos, i took them on my phone, so quality is not very good.

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The arches are all corroded, and the sills and bottoms of the doors need attention too.
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Sorry about the poor quality pics, but they will be better from now on!!
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Re: FRP Duratec Turbo Project!

Postby crystalpuma » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:04 pm

Awesome! Feel like I've seen that FRP around? Hertfordshire??
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Re: FRP Duratec Turbo Project!

Postby PumaNoob » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:06 pm

Possibly, i dont know, i brought it from Nottingham.
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Re: FRP Duratec Turbo Project!

Postby Dal » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:11 pm

Better to have an FRP in tip-top condition albeit "tweaked" than not loved and rusting away in a corner unloved. The 1.7s won't last forever either so be good to see a Duratec in one. In my opinion.

Good luck :thumbs:
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Re: FRP Duratec Turbo Project!

Postby Neil » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:18 pm

What number is it?

Condition wise, it reminds me a little of #013. I guess I'm one of the purists, I'm not sure if I like the idea of the car being messed around with.

That said, cosmetically it isn't brilliant - it'd probably end up in bits anyway.

Swings and roundabouts...
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Re: FRP Duratec Turbo Project!

Postby PumaNoob » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:34 pm

Well the first thing I'm going to do is get it in the body shop, the paintwork on the whole isn't bad, but it's just those arches, & I'd rather get it looking mint, & stop that rust & corrosion eating through the wings.

That's exactly what I thought about the duratec, I'm future proofing it, as you say the 1.7 will get scarce, and FRP parts are so rare now. I'm also fitting Focus RS Brembo calipers and discs, they have better stopping power then the alcons, and the discs are about 1/4 of the price, & they can be brought from ford or most motor part suppliers.
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Re: FRP Duratec Turbo Project!

Postby bigal82 » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:36 pm

excellent i like seeing different things being done with frp's although id never do it too mine but its nice watching other people do it.

good luck ill be watching with interest :grin:

p.s, thats some of the worst rust ive seen on any frp and ive seen alot. :?
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Re: FRP Duratec Turbo Project!

Postby bigal82 » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:39 pm

PumaNoob wrote:I'm also fitting Focus RS Brembo calipers and discs, they have better stopping power then the alcons, and the discs are about 1/4 of the price, & they can be brought from ford or most motor part suppliers.


have you tried an frp with fully serviced and working alcons??

ive driven quite a few special and fast cars and the alcons are the strongest brakes ive felt on any of them, on track days with my frp they have never once faded and you can keep up with alot faster cars by braking so much later into corners, they get stronger with heat so they keep getting better.

brembo's will definitely be easier and cheaper to get parts for but id 100% disagree with them being better than the motorsport alcons.
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Re: FRP Duratec Turbo Project!

Postby PumaNoob » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:46 pm

Neil wrote:What number is it?

Condition wise, it reminds me a little of #013. I guess I'm one of the purists, I'm not sure if I like the idea of the car being messed around with.

That said, cosmetically it isn't brilliant - it'd probably end up in bits anyway.

Swings and roundabouts...


It's number 45!

That's fair enough, I know there will be other people that have the same opinion as you, and I did think the same thing myself, but then I looked at it differently: the parts are so hard to get for the frp, if I sell the engine, or break it, I can potentially revive a few other FRPs that could be the difference between them being broke. Then this puma as you say could have been broken, so I'm essentially bringing it into the 21st century, and mechanically, all the parts are still being made, & will continue making them for a long time yet. The DUratec 1 of the most popular engines in the world at the moment, being used in Mazda, ford, and a tonne of kit cars!!
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Re: FRP Duratec Turbo Project!

Postby PumaNoob » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:54 pm

bigal82 wrote:
PumaNoob wrote:I'm also fitting Focus RS Brembo calipers and discs, they have better stopping power then the alcons, and the discs are about 1/4 of the price, & they can be brought from ford or most motor part suppliers.


have you tried an frp with fully serviced and working alcons??

ive driven quite a few special and fast cars and the alcons are the strongest brakes ive felt on any of them, on track days with my frp they have never once faded and you can keep up with alot faster cars by braking so much later into corners, they get stronger with heat so they keep getting better.

brembo's will definitely be easier and cheaper to get parts for but id 100% disagree with them being better than the motorsport alcons.


to be honest, I never had the privelige of driving an FRP before this, so I can't say I have, but from what I've heard, it is awesome!! I'm just going off the fact that the brembos are 25mm bigger, so should in theory have better stopping power. That being said, I could be wrong!! Only one way to find out!!
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Re: FRP Duratec Turbo Project!

Postby bigal82 » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:06 pm

yep we will have to find a patch of road and have a braking test once you have installed them, i know what id put my money on :wink: .

good luck with the build, should have some nice power after your done :grin:

my mechanic has just put a 2.1ltr duratec in his time attack car and is aiming for over the 300 bhp mark :lol:
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Re: FRP Duratec Turbo Project!

Postby warrenpenalver » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:14 pm

Neil wrote:Condition wise, it reminds me a little of #013. I guess I'm one of the purists, I'm not sure if I like the idea of the car being messed around with.

better than it ending up with the "breaker brothers" IMO.
PumaNoob wrote:to be honest, I never had the privelige of driving an FRP before this, so I can't say I have, but from what I've heard, it is awesome!! I'm just going off the fact that the brembos are 25mm bigger, so should in theory have better stopping power. That being said, I could be wrong!! Only one way to find out!!

Having tried cars with both, unless you go for some massive 6 pots then you will very unlikely find a road 4 pot caliper that can beat the alcons for performance. But then, they are a motorsport caliper so its not surprising really.

and if you read jacko's guides, then they really arent hard to service.
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Re: FRP Duratec Turbo Project!

Postby PumaNoob » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:29 pm

Yeah, in N/A form the duratec I think goes to about 230bhp with a good map, inlet plenum or throttle bodies, and a good set of cams. With more mods and higher lift cams ect 300bhp is achievable. That's the sort of figures I'm looking for!!

With the braking thing, I'd imagine the brembos and alcons can't be much different, they are both aluminium housing, both 4 pot, and the pistons are similar size. If the alcons could be used on the 325mm disc, then I'd imagine the stopping power would be the same, but we all know that when it comes to breaking, the further away from the centre the braking force is, the better effect it will have.

The focus RS is a heavier, more powerful, and newer car then the FRP, so it makes sence to have more effective brakes on it! Why would ford put better brakes on an older, lighter car with only 150bhp? If the FRP brakes were as good, surely ford would just have used them on later cars like the RS, as the cost can't have been much different?

As I said, this is just theory, but I was thinking a more accurate test, when you go for your MOT, they test the brakes, there is a force measurement readout on the machine. I know that big vans and the Hummer have amazing brakes. If you get that when your car goes for an MOT, and I'll get mine when it's done. I suppose it's dependant on pads, discs, & tyres too!
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Re: FRP Duratec Turbo Project!

Postby Dal » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:35 pm

PumaNoob wrote:
The focus RS is a heavier, more powerful, and newer car then the FRP, so it makes sence to have more effective brakes on it! Why would ford put better brakes on an older, lighter car with only 150bhp? If the FRP brakes were as good, surely ford would just have used them on later cars like the RS, as the cost can't have been much different?


Because Ford didn't fit / spec them, Tickford did unlike the FRS.
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Re: FRP Duratec Turbo Project!

Postby PumaNoob » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:43 pm

warrenpenalver wrote:
Neil wrote:Condition wise, it reminds me a little of #013. I guess I'm one of the purists, I'm not sure if I like the idea of the car being messed around with.

better than it ending up with the "breaker brothers" IMO.
PumaNoob wrote:to be honest, I never had the privelige of driving an FRP before this, so I can't say I have, but from what I've heard, it is awesome!! I'm just going off the fact that the brembos are 25mm bigger, so should in theory have better stopping power. That being said, I could be wrong!! Only one way to find out!!

Having tried cars with both, unless you go for some massive 6 pots then you will very unlikely find a road 4 pot caliper that can beat the alcons for performance. But then, they are a motorsport caliper so its not surprising really.

and if you read jacko's guides, then they really arent hard to service.


yeah, that's pretty much my opinion too!! The thing is, i got a set of brembos for £170, a full seal and screw rebuild kit for £40, and mintex pads and EBC grooved and dimpled discs for £85! That's more then £100 less then the discs alone for the alcons! Yes I did get a good price for these, as I know people in the trade, but I also dontlike the fact that FRP owners are forced to pay a ludacris price for discs that production and material wise, are not much different to the Focus rs discs. If I do this conversion, my brake disc suppliers then become competitive again!! Like I said, it's 1 more thing that's going to be future proof on my car!
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Re: FRP Duratec Turbo Project!

Postby PumaNoob » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:53 pm

Dal wrote:
PumaNoob wrote:
The focus RS is a heavier, more powerful, and newer car then the FRP, so it makes sence to have more effective brakes on it! Why would ford put better brakes on an older, lighter car with only 150bhp? If the FRP brakes were as good, surely ford would just have used them on later cars like the RS, as the cost can't have been much different?


Because Ford didn't fit / spec them, Tickford did unlike the FRS.


ok smart arse!! Lol
well I think that if ford, Peugeot, fiat, Subaru, & Porsche to name few, felt brembos were good enough for their 200 to 300bhp cars, then who ami to argue??

If I'm wrong and they aren't up to the job, I'll just swap them out, & it's a lesson learned!!
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Re: FRP Duratec Turbo Project!

Postby bigal82 » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:57 pm

oh no doubt they will be well upto the job but i was just putting my money on them not being better than a fresh set of alcons :wink:
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Re: FRP Duratec Turbo Project!

Postby PumaNoob » Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:01 am

Yeah that's fair enough mate, I'm always happy to get different opinions. So do you think that if you put alcons on a bigger disc, then it would have better stopping power??
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Re: FRP Duratec Turbo Project!

Postby Dal » Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:06 am

What Duratec wee you thinking of using?
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Re: FRP Duratec Turbo Project!

Postby PumaNoob » Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:09 am

The 2.0 duratec. The duratec found in the fiesta st, mk2 focus, and mk3 mondeo. The full aluminium duratec, not the fake duratec found in the focus st170 and focus RS which are modded zetec blacktops.
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Re: FRP Duratec Turbo Project!

Postby bigal82 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:10 am

PumaNoob wrote:Yeah that's fair enough mate, I'm always happy to get different opinions. So do you think that if you put alcons on a bigger disc, then it would have better stopping power??



if they were a bigger width alcon then yeah in my opinion, the alcon pads/calipers cover the full disc where as some big brake conversions ive seen lately the caliper is mounted with a massive disc but the pads only cover 3/4 of the disc face itself meaning that its only doing the same as the smaller disc surely??

will you have to have custom driveshafts etc made??
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Re: FRP Duratec Turbo Project!

Postby PumaNoob » Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:24 am

Yes, custom shafts, I've spoken to a machinist who specialises in drag car shafts, he said if I take my shafts in, he can do them for between £300 & £400.

I think the thing with bigger diameter discs is not so much to do with surface area, but the fact that even if it's the same surface area of contact between pad and disc, and the same pressure applied the disk, the bigger diameter disk will have better stopping power, because there is less torque the further away from the centre you get. Its the same principal as acceleration suffers with bigger diameter wheels. So my statement earlier was not to say the caliper is better or worse then the alcon, but the fact that the bigger disc should give me better stopping power, as would the alcon on a bigger disc in my opinion!

Does anybody know anything about gun drilled driveshafts, as the guy at the machinist shop told me about them, but I can't get my head around the principal of drilling a hole through the middle of a shaft can actually make it stronger??
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Re: FRP Duratec Turbo Project!

Postby yippeekiay » Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:32 am

This should be an interesting project if your Puma Turbo one is anything to go by ;)

Ok your not restoring it to original but I think what your doing is way better than letting it rot and be stripped bare for serviceable parts, with most of them probably going into anything but another FRP. You have my vote as No.45 will still be tangeable as No.45 FRP and not a washing machine case or cola can even if it isn't 100% original :thumbs:
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Re: FRP Duratec Turbo Project!

Postby warrenpenalver » Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:06 am

Dal wrote:Because Ford didn't fit / spec them, Tickford did unlike the FRS.

exactly. FRP's were a one off special where as FRS's are mass produced. the designers went for the best where the bean counters didnt stop them. No way would they have got away with a motorsport caliper otherwise.
PumaNoob wrote:yeah, that's pretty much my opinion too!! The thing is, i got a set of brembos for £170, a full seal and screw rebuild kit for £40, and mintex pads and EBC grooved and dimpled discs for £85! That's more then £100 less then the discs alone for the alcons! Yes I did get a good price for these, as I know people in the trade, but I also dontlike the fact that FRP owners are forced to pay a ludacris price for discs that production and material wise, are not much different to the Focus rs discs. If I do this conversion, my brake disc suppliers then become competitive again!! Like I said, it's 1 more thing that's going to be future proof on my car!

FRP owners arent forced to pay silly prices. You just dont buy alcon discs. All the parts that wear are being remade cheaply anyway.

bigal82 wrote:oh no doubt they will be well upto the job but i was just putting my money on them not being better than a fresh set of alcons :wink:

I agree. As said, ive had several different 4 pot set ups and 6 pots on another car and none of them stops like good nick alcons. Even the expensive AP 4 pots and massive discs i have on the cossie are not a match to alcons.
PumaNoob wrote:Yeah that's fair enough mate, I'm always happy to get different opinions. So do you think that if you put alcons on a bigger disc, then it would have better stopping power??

besides from the obvious problem of pad size and disc area etc then yes intheory you would get a greater peak breaking force. But in reality youd lock the wheels up on road tyres before you could use the extra force.
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Re: FRP Duratec Turbo Project!

Postby red » Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:17 am

I'm watching this project with great interest as this engine was my idea for a replacement if the 1.7 ever became too much hassle to repair / replace.

As for the brakes... my brothers FRP had FRS disks with the Alcon callipers and that was just a shocking set up.

I like that you're doing to your FRP what I've thought of as a good diea... so at least I can see how well it works and how easy you find putting the engine in :thumbs:
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