JASAPP

Do you have a Puma that is a project? Do you want to track the progress with your own thread? Feel free to do it here.

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siju
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Postby siju » Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:56 am

Really awesome work! Well done!
Curious to see how the gearbox goes.
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Postby PumaJay » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:01 pm

Wild E. Coyote wrote:
PumaJay wrote:Source of the post Glad I clicked on this one while having my morning cup of tea.

The gearbox is very interesting, be keen to see how it goes once its all done.

If all goes to plan and you (and me) show up at FF in August you will ;-)



Ford fair wont be happening for me this year im afraid, It always falls on the weekend of/near my wife's birthday so that takes priority for me. I also have a stag do on the weekend to be at as well!
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Postby corley » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:46 pm

Hey just read the entire project, i'm really impressed with your attention to detail and the effort you have gone to.

Really interested in how you progress with the ST180 gearbox - keep up the good work!
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Wild E. Coyote
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Postby Wild E. Coyote » Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:10 pm

Hi everyone,

had a little mishap with brakes. When was installing ST150 front calipers and discs, didn't have the overhaul kit on me so just reassembled everything. That now backfired on me :oops:

For a month or so the car was behaving a bit strange and had a feeling one brake might be sticking. However, last week the front right wheel turned dusty as hell; sure sign the brake piston has seized. So, today had no choice but to dismantle everything and have a look what happened.
Sure thing, this is what I discovered
Image

The seal lost it's elasticity and dislodged itself and in proces left the piston exposed. When that happened, it was only a matter of time before it seized. It was very difficuilt to get it out (tried the compressor trick but it wouldn't go but in the end gave up (we have a saying that the smarter one gives up :wink: )

Image

The other one went out fine
Image

After that the usual job of cleaning everyhthing

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Then brought everything inside and put it on a radiator to bring it to room temperature

Image

That was needed because this followed....

Image

And finally...

Image

That is the state today. Waiting for paint to dry, instead of can spray went for thicker paint applied with a brush in hope that would leave better finish and make it harder for dust to catch on...

The car is on stands over night, as I wait for the paint to cure before I tommorow rebuild the calipers with new seals and new pistons.

Image

Image

By the way, the pistons on ST150 brake setup are exactly the same as the ones on regular brake setup on late pumas with 258 mm discs. The calipers are bigger and the brake pads are bigger, but the pistons are the same so the oevrhaul kit for ST150 is applicable to regular setup and vice versa.

On Monday will get new brakepads as mine are done, but discs are holding very well, almost no wear on them. Will go for Ate as it is excellent quality and never squeals
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Postby tuonokid » Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:07 am

Hi Sinisa
Great work as usual and full of facts rather than internet guesses. Well done mate!
Barry
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2001 ColOrado red Puma 1.7, work in progress.
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Building Westfield SEI 2.0 Zetec Blacktop on TBs.
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My Project Link - viewtopic.php?f=64&t=23509

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Wild E. Coyote
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Postby Wild E. Coyote » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:03 am

Cheers Barry!

3:07 AM? Were you pulling all-nighter?! I am dead after 11 PM (but get up early).....
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Postby Brian' » Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:26 pm

Nice work Sinisa! Gives me a reminder that I also still have to disassemble my ST150 brake setup and overhaul them. :P
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Postby tuonokid » Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:26 pm

Hi Sinisa
It says 1.07 on my post but I think we may be 1hr in front of you at this time of year. I don't go to bed early as I don't have to get up early in fact I'm thinking of hibernating now as I'm sick of the bloody cold weather :-(
Barry :-)
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Building Westfield SEI 2.0 Zetec Blacktop on TBs.
Fiesta Style 1.25
Aprilia Tuono Factory.
1975 Yamaha TY80
Now working on my sons Anglia 105e

My Project Link - viewtopic.php?f=64&t=23509

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Wild E. Coyote
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Postby Wild E. Coyote » Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:32 pm

Ah, ok Barry, but that is still to late for me :oops:

So, today got it all together. The biggest hussle was to put the seal on the caliper. One went on fine, the other was a real struggle.

This is the overhaul kit I am using (comes with pistons as well).
Image

And finally...
Image

Notice how pads are thin. I used Ford original pads and they were OK, I guess apart from being dusters. The wheels were really dusty all the time, but on other hand the brakes never squealed. So will try ATE this time (although I think Ate might be in original package and labelled as Ford).

Anyway, the brakes on the car
Image

Image

After that, did the bleeding procedure, and was rather nervous about it as this was the first time I was doing it on my own. Added about 0.3 litres of brake fluid and then did the pumping procedure (don't have the pressure bleeder, sadly) with my kid assisting.

So, time for test drive. And a BIG scare came. The car wouldn't start. It was cranking, but not starting and I git scared the ABS is preventing startup bcause it trapped air (meaning my bleeding was not done properly). After a minute or so, tried again, but now with fully depressed accelerator pedal and it started. Then it dawned on me! I reparked the car to mov it to other position as yesterday in the morning was snowing and wanted to be under some protection; puma doesn't like that to stopped before it caught operating temperature and the PCM probably thought it did the warmup. Anyway, the car started, coughed a bit, but soon regained itself and startd acting normally so could go on a test drive.
The pedal is now much softer than before and exposes that long travel weakness of ST150 brake setup. Apart from that it works nice and progressively. Longish pedal travel is connected to the pads being worn almost completely so the pistons are at their outmost position.
Tried the braking with hands of the steering wheel, and the car was stopping nicely in straight line proving the brakes operate equally as there was no pulling sideways.

After succesfull test drive that I survived to tell about it :grin: , had to clean the wheels properly and that is it.

Image
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Postby Wild E. Coyote » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:42 pm

After few days of use, must tell you all guys to do service to your brakes! The difference is amazing. The pedal is softer, much more responsive, the feeling is improved beyond words. The improvement is so big that at first I thought I haven't bled the brakes properly and that there must be some air still trapped in the system. Having brakes rebled with a pressure bleeder and now confirming 100% that there is no air in the system the only thing that can justify the difference in pedal force are the new pistons and seals and assembly using the supplied grease that must have taken LOTS of friction out the calipers!
Before the service I had some slight vibration on the pedal and thought the discs were warped, but they are in excellent condition and now all the vibrations are gone completely. The car is now such a joy to drive!
I just can't recommend this kind of service enough. If you haven't done it yet, given the age of our cats that is something that everyone should do. If you don't go painting the calipers, it is an hour of job altogether, tops!
Got the Ate brake pads (the front and the back ones) and if I manage to borrow the tools for winding in the rear calipers will replace them all thsi weekend.
Just one remark regarding the front brake pads: the ST150 are exactly the same as the ones for ST170. They are beng used on transit connect as well.
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Postby CeReD » Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:13 pm

Having done 400miles ona motorway in my FRP I'm very interested in adding the ST180 g/box as i plan to do some cross continent trips. When all is complete could you write a comprehensive guide/list?
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Postby Wild E. Coyote » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:47 pm

Of course I will do it! And, TBH, that day might be rather close :wink:
The driveshafts are on their way, and all points in the direction of straight swap with ST180 driveshafts which, apparently are straight fit in puma hubs. If that is so, there are only two things to sort: the VSS signal (also solution is near, hopefully) and the gearbox mount and torque resistor. Somehow I hope it will be the least of my problems, but we all know that an assumption is the mother of all f.....s
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Postby CeReD » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:19 pm

Hope all goes well, worst case scenario you just have to butcher puma and ST180 driveshafts.

FRPs as you probably know have longer driveshafts, so think I'd get normal puma shafts and stick them onto ST180 ones. I'll avoid cutting up FRP shafts because they're too valuable... and achingly rare... And the previous owner will hunt me down
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corley
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Postby corley » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:13 pm

also really interested in your gearbox swap - you'll end up being a pioneer!

The gearbox for my build is the number one power constraint/restriction stopping me cranking up the power even more :)

good luck!
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Postby Wild E. Coyote » Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:37 pm

The B6 is good for 285 Nm so I guess that will be enough for you. :wink:

Cheers,
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Postby siju » Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:26 pm

Some st180s go past 350Nm so I think the gearbox will hold way more than 285Nm. But time will tell!! :lol:
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Postby Wild E. Coyote » Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:50 pm

Getrag officially communicates 285 Nm as the torque capacity for that gearbox.

http://www.getrag.com/media/products/ma ... T250~1.pdf
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siju
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Postby siju » Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:26 am

I didn't know it was a Getrag one. Is IB5 also Getrag?
Probably it has a rather large margin of safety as st180s with remap+exhaust+intercooler typically have 230+bhp and circa 350Nm.
I think the same was truth about st150 where the ib5+ gearbox was supposed to not have great strength but the rotrex powered st150s had 300+ bhp. (although because of the rotrex not a lot of torque).
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Postby tuonokid » Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:30 am

It's the torque that kills gearboxes but don't forget engineers will quote safety margins of typically will take 1.5 of stated in most engineering projects.
Barry
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2001 ColOrado red Puma 1.7, work in progress.
Westfield SEIW 1800 Zetec.
Building Westfield SEI 2.0 Zetec Blacktop on TBs.
Fiesta Style 1.25
Aprilia Tuono Factory.
1975 Yamaha TY80
Now working on my sons Anglia 105e

My Project Link - viewtopic.php?f=64&t=23509

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Wild E. Coyote
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Postby Wild E. Coyote » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:59 am

siju wrote:Source of the post I didn't know it was a Getrag one. Is IB5 also Getrag?
Probably it has a rather large margin of safety as st180s with remap+exhaust+intercooler typically have 230+bhp and circa 350Nm.
I think the same was truth about st150 where the ib5+ gearbox was supposed to not have great strength but the rotrex powered st150s had 300+ bhp. (although because of the rotrex not a lot of torque).

Yes, it is also a Getrag in a sense Getrag developed the Improved version (hence I).
Regarding the ST150 gearbox, Erroll managd to break one with his monser puma :wink:
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Postby Wild E. Coyote » Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:17 pm

Today finished the brake job on JASAPP. After refurbishing front calipers finally today found time and motivation to complete the job.

So replaced the pads all round. Went for Ate

Image

The old ones were really worn
Image

Finally....
Image

While at it, did the same at rear brakes. When did the disc conversion bought the rear disc brake setup used on eBay and it came with pads that had plenty of life in them so left them for time being. And so the time went and I didn't like them: they were noisey (tsmeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee) and had tendetion for sticking to discs.

So, off they went...!
Image

Instead of them went for Ate again
Image

The rear calipers have in them mechanism for handbrake and you need special tool to get them in. You need to push them in and turn them at the same time. Unfortunately, the image is shaken a bit. Apologies for that

Image

The caliper in and ready for the pads to be installed
Image

And finally
Image

Image

But, it wasn't over until it was over! Went for a short test drive and the rear right caliper was seizing. So, dismantled everything again and sure thing, found that one guiding pin was seized like welded. No movement at all! So, after some effort finally pulled it out, cleaned and greased with silicone grease. Then cheked the other caliper and found that both pins were almost seized so did the same.
After putting everything together went again for short test drive and gave it few gentle brakings. Then pumped up the pedal few times to get the rear pistons in their position.
After that aplied hand brake to engage the mechanism and now brakes work like charm! The hand brake is the best it ever was since the rear brake conversion. And on test drive no noise while grinding to halt so happy times!
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Postby drmotorsport » Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:47 pm

fascinating stuff with the gearbox replacement - will be bookmarking this :-)
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Postby Brian' » Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:19 pm

Awesome work once again, Sinisa!
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Postby RICHARD MANSFIELD2 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:19 pm

Hi Well done.

Whilst on the subject of front brake calipers. When I did the Mini's if I had a stubborn piston I would use a bleed nipple without the spring and ball bearing (drill it out) and pump the piston out with a grease gun, worked every time.

Regards,
Richard.
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Wild E. Coyote
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Postby Wild E. Coyote » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:56 pm

Cheers for the idea, a nice one! Hopefully I will never need it, but good to know.

:thumbs:
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