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Do you have a Puma that is a project? Do you want to track the progress with your own thread? Feel free to do it here.

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Post by Nooni_nooni » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:56 am

I’m especially impressed with the steering wheel controls for your alpine stereo. I have been hoping to do something similar. Was it easy to do? Do you think I would struggle as someone with no prior experience with cars?
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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:54 am

Piece of cake. Just get the steering wheel audio controls and you need alpine modul for matching ford controls (i.e. Mk1 focus as that was the donor vehicle). The modul comes with all the wiring and it is very straighforward
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Post by Jamesfrp333 » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:40 pm

Great work wild E! What area of Croatia are you? did not see you on recent holiday :grin:
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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:59 pm

I guess you were somewhere along coastline, most probably on Pag or some other islands? I am on continent, near capital of Zagreb
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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:25 am

Well, it has been long enough! As most of you probably don't know, I have acquired last summer myself a honda civic (1999. 1.5 VTEC, econo model) to be used as daily driver. It was in OK condition, but have been sorting it out since and used on daily basis. It is very easy car to work on, very well built and frugal as well. But, since everything that needed doing has been done, I turned attention to puma again. There was this plan I had for it all along, and that is why I did get honda in first place; to be able to take puma apart and do some serious work on it. I did get a B6 gearbox for it but since it was not straightforward jobbie, I didn't do the swap in the end (yet).

After some hurdles (a scumbag tried to doublecross me :evil: ) a week ago a palette arrived...
Image
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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:38 am

The original purchase was done in summer time. A seller agreed to send it to me on a palette, then stated it will be on a very long trip (lasting for two months) and then stopped communicating. I opened a case with eBay, and after a month or so, I got full refund. So no money loss, but time was lost (almost 3 months in total).
Again a process of finding another item, negotiating the price etc and found one who was a top bloke; he packaged it really good as image proves. I was worried slightly he might have put a package of bricks on pallete, but he was a genuine bloke :wink:
As inside package there was...

Image

First nice surprice: I was negotiating the engine only. But in the package there was as well....

Image

Yes, a complete gearbox as well! We would say a pidgeon just dropped it on me big time (meaning a strike of good luck) :grin: :grin:

I guess some of you recognise what it is. If unsure, this image should be enough as it contains one vital piece of hardware...

Image

And the final one saying it all on the cover... :wink:

Image

It is a complete engine-gearbox combo from fiesta ST180. 1.6 ecoboost with about 56000 miles on it. The car was a write off and I got it with only one purpose: to make an engine swap in puma!
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Post by red » Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:50 am

8-) Looking forward to seeing this progress :grin:
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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:58 am

Now, here are the hurdles: it is a modern engine that runs in a car with canbus. For those who are unfamiliar with it, that is basically a digital electric network very similar to ethernet or LAN network. All the computers in your offices are hooked to a such network; each of them has it's own digital adress. Traffic on it is monitored by switches and routers etc...
The canbus in car is almost exactly the same. Each system has its own module running it and they all communicate over canbus. There are two canbus networks, can High and can Low (differentiated by speeds od data circulating through them). On can high are vital information for the car functioning (speed, throttle position, engine performance, ABS operation, servo steering etc). Can low has information about locks, A/C system, lights etc....
The point where both can networks get together and share information is called gateway and in Fiesta ST it is the instrument cluster. This explanation was needed to understand why the OEM PCM (ECU) could not operate engine in puma. It would need information from various systems that simply don't exist in puma and most probably would work in safe, or limp mode only if that at all.
So, original PCM was a no go. However, since ecoboost 1.6 engine is so popular, aftermarket PCM's capable of running it have started to appear.
Ecoboost (or any GDI engine for that matter) uses very high pressure injectors with common rail and coil over spark ignition system and known PCM's are unable to run them. So after some digging I found that there is a complete solution for running ecoboost engine.

https://www.scs-delta.co.uk/ford-ecoboost-ecu

Although the system is not cheap, it is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than any other alternative and comes premapped for cca 220 bhp. That si more or less the flowing capacity of stock injectors. The engine itself is mechanically capable of running up to 350 bhp with different turbo.

The first option (220 bhp) is IMHO plenty enough and just about right for puma. The engine is based on sigma family, so no weight penalty that would ruin the handling.

Ok, let's say the engine and running it is covered? Not quite yet. The ecoboost uses drive-by-wire system. No cables. Luckily, gents at SCS delta aren't stupid and offer a solution:

https://www.scs-delta.co.uk/product-pag ... rottle-pot

The PCM will run the engine as it is, it will output the signals for coolant temperature and revs to the stock instrument cluster so the car can visually stay a sleeper.
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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:07 am

Since engine is rather big and heavy, had to modify the palette and screwed some wheels to it.

Image

Image

Engine is now movable...

The first problem: Puma uses mechanical (hydraulic) servo system. Fiesta ST180 has EPS (electric power steering). The path of lower resistance would be to ditch the servo and get a manual steering rack from a fiesta Mk4. But this car is meant to be a daily, not a track beast, and that is not acceptable solution.

So took a really good look at the engine block.
The tensioner and servopump are on the same carrier which is bolted via 4 M8 studs to engine block and head on 1.7 engine.

Image

It should go behind the engine.

Something like this

Image

Now it gets REALLY interesting: the block is from outside exactly the same for 1.6 ecoboost and 1.7 engines! It has the same holes for instalation.

After taking down the inlet pipe and the turbo heatshield, you are left with this

Image
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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:31 am

These are the holes that take on studs in puma

Image

The third one is also there, but is covered by exhaust manifold and blocked by the oil feed line for turbo

Image

Image

On this image I attached the studs to the two bottom holes and detached the oil feed line for turbo for clearer view. Also, note at the bottom left part of picture the compressor inlet with the inlet hose detached

The studs in detail
Image

The puma tensioner and pump carier (a cast iron item, must be wieghting a ton!) is fouling the compressor inlet

Image

Obviously, this is a no go route there. Time for some head scratching...

I could ditch the standard carrier and tensioner with it. Producing the bespoke pump carrier taht would use the two bottom studs is not a problem. But, I am worried by the tensioning force of the ribbed aux belt.
So thought of another brace that would stiffen it up using the top M8 bolt holding the coolling line for the turbo

Image

It is strong and should provide a good leverage to counteract the twisting made by tensioning force of the aux belt. I would have to kiss goodbye the original tensioner but using a stretch belt is possible (that belt is strechable a bit and needs no tensioner, widely used on newer engines, mostly of French origin, but needs special tool for install).
Also considered taking down the exhaust manifold and to make use of the existing fixation behind it. Slightly worried by heat expansion of the carrier plate, as that would try to lift the exhaust which would be bolted on top of it and might create a blowby... :?:

The other option considered was switching to a honda civic servopump. As you know, honda civic Mk6 has a mirror image engine bay (engine points to the left side, instead to the right as is on puma). That means the engine spins in opisite direction, and with it also the servo pump. That would mean I could mount the pump opposite to the engine and just give it drive from a pulley, say alternator. But the connection would have to be flexible, as engine moves around in operation.

Wanting the car to daily, losing A/C was no option.

The final thing that drove me away from putting the servo pump behind engine (even with bespoke carrier) was fact that it would be operating near the hottest thing in engine bay: turbo. Also, major rerouting for the oil and coolant feed to turbo would be needed, whihc is doable, but rerouting the inlet pipe might be a real problem (as it would need to be VERY kinked)
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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:04 pm

Obviosuly, the hydraulic servo as we know it is very difficuilt to implement on this engine. Something else is needed, and I had an idea :idea:

There is ever growing electrifying movement where people get for peanuts older cars with usually very worn or broken engines and convert them to electric propulsion. By doing so they face pretty much the same challenge as I did (notice the 'did' :wink: ).

The solution is this

Image

This is electrohydraulic servopump from Toyota MR2 spider (2001-2005). It is extremly compact and all in one unit with everything. In it is the ECU running it, on top is the feeder tank. This is the brillint piece of kit (Domo arigato, Toyoda-san! :thumbs: ) as it is compact and reliable, and, most importantly, used on pre-canbus car.
The EHPS (electro hydraulic power steering) systems have been around for some time. To the best of my knowledge, the first car to utilise this system was Citroën Saxo/Peugeot 106 who were using this electric pump in diesel engined versions.

Image

Similar pump is in existance for Renault Mk2 dCi. Both are very simple and run at constant speed having just two wires to connect (12V and ground). That would mean the steering would be overassisted at higher speeds and I would need some kind of controller to wind it down at speeds. Since that thing uses like 80 amps for operation, that needs some industrial type of controller.

Electroguys use also vauxhall astra H/zafira B (made by ZF) EHPS pump as well as Mk2 focus/Volvo S40-V50 (made by TRW). But, both these pumps need canbus for running and if canbus is not there simply run at their peak speed. Again, not good for feel and also not good for longevity of the pump.

One other option is EHPS from Mini R50/R53 which is also precan car, but not sure on steering sensors for that. Some conflicting information floating around and also know that these pumps (made by ZF) were prone to failures.

So, back to Toyota MR2 solution. It needs 12V and ground, switchable 12V and that is it. It has inbuilt pressure sensor. When you turn the wheel, the pressure drops and the inbuilt ECU winds it up. Just what is needed! Also, there is provision for VSS to be wired in, and then at certain speed it switches itself off. Toyota uses standard Asian VSS signal (square, 4 peaks pre engine revolution). Puma uses something like 7-9 (can't find definitive answer to that) so it would switch the pump off sooner.
Since the B6 gearbox has no VSS, I will be using a hall sensor at rear wheel(s). The idea is to drill a hole in rear hub carier (same as it is for the ABS sensor) and point the sensor to the back of wheel bolts. There are four of them and that is the 4 peaks per wheel revolution needed.
PCM can be calibrated to suit the instrument cluster and that should do.

For the electrical wiring of the MR2 pump got myself the small fuse/relay box from honda accord. It contains everything needed, but needs uprating to 50 A. It should make it more reliable and for a neat installation (domo arigato, Honda-san!)...

Image

I have bought the MR2 pump on eBay and wait for it to be delivered. Also, need to send the engine loom to SCS-Delta for modification and then the fun can start.
I would just need some clarification regarding the puma servo system. It has a cooler at the front; that is part of pressurised line, I would presume? The line goes from pump to the cooler, and from cooler to the rack?

Ta in advance,


PS. If someone sees some flaw in my reckoning and planning, you are welcome to share your thoughts. We say a man and a donkey know more than just a man alone... (and I consider myself a donkey here)
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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:21 pm

Just had a chat with nice gents from SCS Delta. Had some concerns about the fuel pump. Good News, regular fuel pump can be retained as it forms the low pressure fuel line in DI engine. The regular fuel pump will supply the engine with fuel at pressure in region of 3.5 - 5 bar and that is what is needed by high pressure fuel pump of ecoboost engine. So, only will have to match the flowing capacity (for 220 bhp the standard puma fuel pump is inadequate, I suppose).
So anothe one box ticked! :thumbs:
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Post by XAF » Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:00 pm

Hey Sinisa,

Wow, epic project and research / attention to detail as ever!

This my friend is going to be epic. Well, for us! I suspect it may throw some curve balls for you but what a great idea!
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Post by tuonokid » Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:26 pm

Hi Sinisa
Great stuff as usual but a sh*t-load of research and work....well done so far and looking forward to the finished result!
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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:38 pm

Cheers, guys! TBH I am a bit scared by an apparent ease of this conversion. Of course, there is lot of work ahead, but everything seems to check out and, in theory at least!, should work as intended. As I am old enough, I am just waiting for a major setback at some point to make you think: why have I started this in first place...? But, hey, we all have our own demons, I guess.

Do you know the answer to the steering system cooling question? Logic would dictate the fulid after pump goes to the cooler, but I don't think I have seen two seats of pipes going back and forth around the engine....

I could (have) take(n) a look in the engine bay, but the weather was miserable so could not ofrce myself to do it....
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Post by tuonokid » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:25 pm

Hi Sinisa
From memory the cooler pipe has only push fit with spring clip fittings which would suggest that it's on the low pressure side. If I remember I'll take a look tomorrow.
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Post by G-Bob » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:06 pm

Awesome project and I'll definately keep an eye on this one.

One of the comments you said earlier was that the block is the same as the 1.7. Does that mean in theory that the manifold and turbo should line up with the 1.7 block?
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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:32 pm

Not sure what you mean by lining up? The manifold is bolted to the head and turbo to it. The ports on the ecoboost head are different to the ones on 1.7 so the manifold would not fit to it. And 1.6 ecoboost head would bolt to the 1.7 block, but the cooling and oil opening are not the same so it wouldn't work.
I do think (haven't checked, mind you!) that the ecoboost crankshaft would fit in 1.7 block, but not sure on conrods mating with 1.7 pistons.
Does that answer your question?
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Post by alex' » Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:56 pm

Nice project :grin:

a good swap idea ... but i think the biggest problem is to find an idea for the wiring and the ecu

or you think, you can adapt fiesta st wiring and ecu on puma ??
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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:37 am

You weren't paying attention: https://www.scs-delta.co.uk/ford-ecoboost-ecu

Standalone ECU and they modify the loom.... :wink:
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Post by alex' » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:00 pm

Ok, so if you do a succesful swapp of an 1.6 ecoboost in a Puma,
it's one of the better swapp for this car !

a popular (maybe more than a duratec 2.0) and light engine (all aluminium, more light than an zetec E in cast ), and have a lot of part for upgrade (a lot more than an zetec 1.7 for sure :wink: )!!
and the 6 gears gearbox .... it's the cherry on the cake 8-)

I can't wait to see more on this project :wink: :grin: :grin:
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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:39 pm

Ok, nothing to show for yet, but I have been doing some research. The first thing to be sorted out is the Vehicle Speed Sensor signal. As you know, the B6 gearbox is new, meant for modern canbus cars and it has no provision for VSS. It is not needed, as the ABS sensors are used for getting the signal about the speed of vehicle and that is then broadcast over CANBUS.
Obviosuly, puma uses no canbus (it uses K line diagnostic protocol) so I need somehow the information about the vehicle speed.
All the systems in cars measure distance the cars has travelled in terms of pulses they get from VSS (I am talking about the digital system, not cables from gearboxes).
Asian manufacturers all use 4000 pulses per mile system. Ford in this era used 8000 pulses per mile system. That means that for each travelled mile instrument cluster will receive 8000 pulses from VSS. These pulses are square peaks of voltage; either 5V or 12V. I am not yet 100% sure, but I think Ford VSS outputs 12V pulses.
Now, time for some math: puma uses 195/50R15 tyre. Circumference of that tyre is 1.81 m. A mile is 1609 m, so that gives 889 wheel revolutions per mile. Since in that time VSS will produce 8000 pulses, for one wheel revolution we should get 8.998 pulses.
And sure enough, this video proves it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qmcsmmGCkI

So now I face a dilemma. I can get a hall sensor (denoted by 3 wires) or a VR sensor (2 wires) to look at my rear wheel hub's bolts. Puma uses 4 bolts per wheel, and for each turn I would get 4 pulses. I need 9, but get only 4, so miss out on 5. That means I would have to add the original signal by another 125% to get to 9.

Luckily, there are in existance some moduls enabling you to do just that.
Speedo corrector: https://www.jaycar.com.au/corrector-spe ... e/p/AA0376
Universal Speedometer Signal Interface: http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/ ... prd126.htm
Speed Signal Interface: https://shop.classicinstruments.com/sn74z

Needless to say, I went for the cheapest option :grin:

There is one more thing. This module should adapt itself to the signal it receives and transform it for the instrument cluster. So in theory I should be ok with using either VR or Hall sensor (Hall sensor outputs square signal, VR sine signal that needs processing to become square. VR uses only two wires, so simple in implementation but it is not like I will be doing this 1500 copies per day so a wire will add to some savings at end of a fiscal year....

Now turning attention to the PS pump. As I already mentioned, I will be using the Toyota MR2 PS pump. It is already home. After searching the net I found the shop manual for the MR2 and there is explanation of the signal needed. The integrated ECU of the PS pump expects the 4 pulses per sensor revolution square 5V signal.
This 4 pulses per sensor revolution is standard Asian signalling. Please,note: this is 4 pulses per SENSOR revolution, not tyre!
Again some math: MR2 uses tyres ins ize 185/55R15 (front) and 205/50R15 (rear). Circumference of that tyres is 1.813 m.
That gives as 887,15 wheel revolutions per mile.
The VSS would produce 4000 pulses over a mile so per wheel revolution that is 4.5 pulses. So, if I were to use the 4 wheel bolt system I am very close. If I don't modify the signal, I am 12.5% undersignalling. Since the PS ECU would switch the pump off at 100 kph, with this setup it would happen at 89 kph. I think I can live with that, plus I can always tweak the signal at later date shoudl it be needed.
All of you who have done the rear disc conversion know that there is plenty of space behind hubs. That got me thinking: I could make a bespoke trigger wheel with 9 teeth (nice, round 40 degrees between them) to get the correct signal for the speedo, and use another sensor on other hub for the PS pump signal.
Third option is to use the driveshaft and put on it a bespoke made trigger wheel similar to ABS rings. That would have to have lots of teeth and would need scaling down the signal significantly. Plus, I am not sure I would want to weld anything on driveshaft as I am affraid it might warp due to the heat stress?

So with that question to Barry and other people handy with welder I conclude this post. Again, you are all more than welcome to give me any inputs if you think my reckoning is wrong in any detail so far?
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Post by tuonokid » Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:47 pm

Hi Sinisa
I think there would be too much movement on the driveshaft to use a trigger wheel as the sensor gap has to be spot on. On my Westfield it drives off the inner flange of the driveshaft which uses alan cap heads to fasten the shaft to the diff and does not move up and down with the shaft. How about a sensor next to the front caliper reading the vent slots in the disc?
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1975 Yamaha TY80
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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:13 pm

No, no, I thought of the inner flange where the driveshaft enters the gearbox. Of course, the driveshaft would move around and that can not happen.
Hmmm, vent slots in the disc are interesting idea, never occured to me! Don't know if that would work, or not...
But my question was mainly about the prospect of welding anything to the driveshaft (flange)... Is that doable? And adviceable?
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Post by tuonokid » Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:06 pm

Hi Sinisa
The trigger wheels I've seen are usually quite light duty so to weld those to the flange of the driveshaft would be quite difficult but i'm sure you could epoxy them on but is there room on the inner flange because the flange is quite recessed down into the gearbox and there are strengthening webs around there (from memory)
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2001 ColOrado red Puma 1.7, work in progress.
Westfield SEIW 1800 Zetec.
Building Westfield SEI 2.0 Zetec Blacktop on TBs.
Fiesta Style 1.25
Aprilia Tuono Factory.
1975 Yamaha TY80
Now working on my sons Anglia 105e

My Project Link - http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=23509" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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