FRP #032 The beginning...

Do you have a Puma that is a project? Do you want to track the progress with your own thread? Feel free to do it here.

Moderator: Moderators

ArtfulHussy
Project Petrol Head!
Project Petrol Head!
Posts: 1050
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:13 pm
Model: 1.7

FRP #032 The beginning...

Postby ArtfulHussy » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:57 pm

I'm assuming you have a garage that you can work in etc? My advice would be to use, say, £500 or so to get a puma with a long ticket to run around in (not like an FRP but the standard 1.7 will still put a smile on your face) and restore the FRP. I would love to own one but don't think I could justify it as a daily, especially over winter. I think you'll regret running it over winter even if you do get the minimum welding done for the MOT - you're just doing half a job that you'd have to almost undo in order to do a proper job next year.

Just my 2p worth.
2 x

gingerdave
Project Petrol Head!
Project Petrol Head!
Posts: 567
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:00 am
Model: Millennium
Location: essex boy ...in worcestershire

FRP #032 The beginning...

Postby gingerdave » Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:17 pm

2 words spring to mind....pit ,,bottomless.You should store the Frp interior ,if you sell it and use an alternative you will find it much harder to sell the car at a later date.Hope you haave a big shed!!
0 x
Puma millennium x2
2.3 diesel Sierra
Bemani Exige
Escort mk2
S1 FHC E Type
Ford Ka
Escort mk 1
Shagged out Peugeot 405
Citroen BX which is busted
Kawasaki Z1000J

And a Grey Fergie

ArtfulHussy
Project Petrol Head!
Project Petrol Head!
Posts: 1050
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:13 pm
Model: 1.7

FRP #032 The beginning...

Postby ArtfulHussy » Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:20 pm

Most FRP's are money pits now, surely, unless someone has already spent a money pit's worth of money to restore it before you buy it..
0 x

User avatar
xnbradley
Adolescent
Adolescent
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:24 pm
Model: FRP
Location: Odiham, Hampshire

FRP #032 The beginning...

Postby xnbradley » Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:55 pm

Hey there...

Thanks for your comments and advice... and I totally get where ya coming from...

from my perspective I think it is crazy to have a car that is amazing to drive and puts a smile on my face tucked away in a garage for half the year... I am pretty sure that when they were designed and built they were never intended to only be used on nice sunny days... at the end of the day... it is a car... and cars were built to be driven... not put in a glass box and only brought out on nice days... it would be like having some amazing pieces of art and just storing them where no one can see them or enjoy them... your self included... I really am not that precious about it... I just don't get people that have 10 or so amazing super cars sat in a air conditioned garages and never drive them... like star wars figures that are still sealed and never played with... I am starting to ramble...

I have total respect and admiration for people who have spent the time and money making them 'concourse' standard... lovely to see them as if they have just driven out of the factory... but to me that is not what a car is for... I am not into having a trophy car for myself and others to admire... I want a car that I can drive... as much as I can... so my aim with #32 is to over the next 12 to 18 months... probably longer is to restore it to the best quality I can... not so it looks amazing... but so it can last for the next 30 years... I honestly hope that this will be my last car that I own... which I think is achievable...

I can't ever imagine myself spending 7 hours detailing it... my life is too full for this... and besides my wife would kill me... I will keep al the original FRP interior... I am gonna swap out the chrome dash bits as I think chrome in a car looks tacky... but I will keep them just in case I need to sell at some point... the other reason for buying is that I really want to learn more about cars... and I am looking forward to it... although it seems very daunting at the moment... I would really like to be present and even get involved when I can when mechanics and other do work on it...

anyway... that is my 2p... I hope I haven't offended anyone... much respect for the guys on the forum who have amazing cars... I get it and really enjoy reading the projects online... I think they can look and sound awesome... for me though... the number one priority is that I want to drive it... I do want it to be the best I can make it... so it lasts and then I will do my best to keep it that way... but at the end of the day I bought it... to drive it... and the value is not in looking the best... or being 100% original... the value for me is in the driving of it...

not sure what others think...
0 x

User avatar
xnbradley
Adolescent
Adolescent
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:24 pm
Model: FRP
Location: Odiham, Hampshire

FRP #032 The beginning...

Postby xnbradley » Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:02 am

just read this through again and it sounds quite critical of people who have done an amazing job in restoring their FRP... this honestly is not my intention... I think if I could afford it and had the spare time I could probably see myself being tempted to do the same... I just cant afford to run three cars... what with the wife's S-Max 2.5l Petrol... I know... we had no idea what we are buying... anyway... much love and respect to every puma owner... I get that it is a passion and that passion can be expressed in lots of different ways... I am starting to ramble again...

night...
0 x

User avatar
tuonokid
Project Elder
Project Elder
Posts: 3096
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:41 pm
Model: 1.7
Location: Huddersfield

FRP #032 The beginning...

Postby tuonokid » Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:14 am

Hi
I don't think it sounds critical at all and I get where you are coming from but I think the real point here is that FRPs as well as most Pumas have reached a tipping point here. They will either be saved or will go to the scrapyard. If yours is as rusty as some of the photos show I would give it a year, maybe two of regular use even with the sills done which means a rare car will disappear which even if it's not particularly valuable will be a real shame.
Good luck with it whatever you decide to do.
Barry
0 x
2001 ColOrado red Puma 1.7, work in progress.
Westfield SEIW 1800 Zetec.
Building Westfield SEI 2.0 Zetec Blacktop on TBs.
Fiesta Style 1.25
Aprilia Tuono Factory.
1975 Yamaha TY80
Now working on my sons Anglia 105e

My Project Link - viewtopic.php?f=64&t=23509

User avatar
Frank
Project Petrol Head!
Project Petrol Head!
Posts: 812
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:14 pm
Model: 1.7
Location: East Sussex

FRP #032 The beginning...

Postby Frank » Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:25 am

xnbradley wrote:Source of the post
I have total respect and admiration for people who have spent the time and money making them 'concourse' standard... lovely to see them as if they have just driven out of the factory... but to me that is not what a car is for... I am not into having a trophy car for myself and others to admire... I want a car that I can drive... as much as I can... so my aim with #32 is to over the next 12 to 18 months... probably longer is to restore it to the best quality I can... not so it looks amazing... but so it can last for the next 30 years

Well, all of that makes the decision making side much easier.

The various bits I see in those pics (plus the parts I can't see) could be patched welded for a lowish cost, the car would scrape through its MOT and last another 1 - 2 years at the very most.

Alternatively, find the cash now, completely replace what needs replacing (the sills seem to spring to mind, for some reason) plus whatever else your mechanic finds and then treat and underseal under the car to within an inch of its life, sail through the MOT and then you'll be good to go chassis-wise for many years to come. 30 is more than many though, 30 would would require the time and dedication and even storage, that you say you don't fancy doing with this car.

To know exactly what you're dealing with, you do need a full report from your mechanic/bodywork guy first.

Either way, your choices are now clearer.
1 x

User avatar
XAF
Project Petrol Head!
Project Petrol Head!
Posts: 701
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:33 pm
Model: 1.7

FRP #032 The beginning...

Postby XAF » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:54 am

I don't think anyone would be offended by your post mate, even if I am one of the victims of how eye wateringly expensive an FRP is!!

It's all down to choice mate. I actually get where you're coming from in many respects. For me, if I used mine everyday now it would do it with ease, but I'd be drastically reducing its lifespan. Worst still, when it needed fixing again chances of getting parts will be even slimmer than today so it may mean I've signed its death warrant.

My limiting when I use it, and enjoying it when I do means that I will still have it in 30 years - as long as it's not stolen all my money and run off with my wife and kids by then :-P

Anyway, your car, your choice, you enjoy it. But if you really want to keep it you need to get that rust fixed quickly before it spreads to a terminal level, and to do properly so it lasts isn't going to be cheap. Mine was only bad on one side, and to blast it, cut it, fit new inner sill, outer sill and FRP quarter probably accounted for £1250 of the cost of the body repairs including the panels.
1 x
2000 Puma Lux
2000 FRP #477

ArtfulHussy
Project Petrol Head!
Project Petrol Head!
Posts: 1050
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:13 pm
Model: 1.7

FRP #032 The beginning...

Postby ArtfulHussy » Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:19 pm

As everyone says it's down to personal preference and I too would rather use a car every day if it made me smile, but as mentioned by others the cost of keeping it on the road is getting higher and some parts are near unobtainable now already. If you're going to want to use it as a daily for the rest of your/it's life then you really must invest quite a lot of time and money restoring it now and weatherproofing it the way Ford didn't. The car has made it 16 years and however many miles without proper prep. If you fix it and weather proof it properly you could be looking at double that again!, but only if you do it right..

I think the general point is regardless of whether you drive it half the year, or all year round, fixing it completely is the only way to do it. How you then maintain the car will dictate how long it lasts. You don't need to detail a car for seven hours on a regular basis to keep it sound. Perhaps once or twice a year spend some time (or money paying someone else) to spanner check the car (Chris for example) and address any niggly bits before they become issues.
0 x

User avatar
xnbradley
Adolescent
Adolescent
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:24 pm
Model: FRP
Location: Odiham, Hampshire

FRP #032 The beginning...

Postby xnbradley » Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:49 am

So I decided to do a little research on what are the best rust treatment options out there...

First one... Jenolite... not sure if I am using it properly... but I wasn't that impressed... what do you think?

IMG_1795.JPG


IMG_1796.JPG


Am I expecting too much... I thought I would wipe it all off and back to nice shiny metal...

oh well...
0 x

User avatar
tuonokid
Project Elder
Project Elder
Posts: 3096
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:41 pm
Model: 1.7
Location: Huddersfield

FRP #032 The beginning...

Postby tuonokid » Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:24 am

If only it was that easy. First you need to attack the visible rust with an angle grinder/drill wire brush/dremmel/ hand wire brush etc to get the visible rust off. Then apply the jenolite etc. When I did mine anything that stayed black after the second coat of jenolite I attacked further or cut out as it was still rot. Really you are looking at 2 situations here, surface rust or rot. If it's rot all you can do is cut it out and weld in new metal.
Barry
0 x
2001 ColOrado red Puma 1.7, work in progress.
Westfield SEIW 1800 Zetec.
Building Westfield SEI 2.0 Zetec Blacktop on TBs.
Fiesta Style 1.25
Aprilia Tuono Factory.
1975 Yamaha TY80
Now working on my sons Anglia 105e

My Project Link - viewtopic.php?f=64&t=23509

User avatar
TylerB
Project Regular
Project Regular
Posts: 217
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:29 pm
Model: 1.7
Location: Belgium

FRP #032 The beginning...

Postby TylerB » Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:00 pm

What Barry said^

Best thing would be to sandblast it all but that's quite impossible so wire brush it is the best option.
I never used Jenolite but it should be ok. Personally I have good experience with Hammerite rust neutralizer (is very penetrating) covered with some layers of Brunox. But there are many good convertors , they all do more or less the same thing. If it's too far, you can only cut it out indeed.
0 x

User avatar
xnbradley
Adolescent
Adolescent
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:24 pm
Model: FRP
Location: Odiham, Hampshire

FRP #032 The beginning...

Postby xnbradley » Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:06 pm

Hey there...

So from the second picture above... looks like I'm gonna have to replace the whole car...

What are tua thoughts on Rust Convertors?

Cheers
0 x

User avatar
TylerB
Project Regular
Project Regular
Posts: 217
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:29 pm
Model: 1.7
Location: Belgium

FRP #032 The beginning...

Postby TylerB » Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:23 pm

As long as there are no holes in it or you can't slam a screwdriver through the metal you don't need to weld it. Not on this location at least. After brushing and a first coat of convertor, wire brush it again with much force to get rid of even more rust. Put over another coat of convertor, you should get a nice dark blue/black surface then which you can finish by painting or any kind of topcoat.
1 x

User avatar
Frank
Project Petrol Head!
Project Petrol Head!
Posts: 812
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:14 pm
Model: 1.7
Location: East Sussex

FRP #032 The beginning...

Postby Frank » Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:58 pm

xnbradley wrote:Source of the post What are tua thoughts on Rust Convertors?

My thoughts are that you should do a 30 second search using the word 'Convertor' into the searchbox in the top right of this page. It's all there.
0 x

User avatar
XAF
Project Petrol Head!
Project Petrol Head!
Posts: 701
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:33 pm
Model: 1.7

FRP #032 The beginning...

Postby XAF » Sun Nov 13, 2016 5:04 pm

All depends on how good a job you want to do. With it being an FRP and you seem to want to preserve it a long as possible, I'd sand blast it. I did the whole underside of my FRP, had it etch primed then paintable stonechip applied, all for £400 including Soda blasting the tank and painting.

Looking at your pictures, you'll need to wire brush, scrape, and wire drill attachment as Barry has suggested as a minimum, but if you want to do it once and forever, blast it if finances allow. None of the rust converters will deal with what you've shown on their own, plus you need to get the metal as clean as possible before you use them anyway.
1 x
2000 Puma Lux
2000 FRP #477

ArtfulHussy
Project Petrol Head!
Project Petrol Head!
Posts: 1050
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:13 pm
Model: 1.7

FRP #032 The beginning...

Postby ArtfulHussy » Sun Nov 13, 2016 5:18 pm

I think if you have somewhere to dry store it I would pop it away over winter and save up some pennies, bring it out next year and get it properly cleaned and protected underneath and then you'll be able to enjoy it during the good weather (when you can drive it the way it was meant to be).

An FRP isn't a quick fix project. I know you want to use it as a daily but if you don't sort the problems properly rhe first time you'll regret it down the line.
0 x

User avatar
xnbradley
Adolescent
Adolescent
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:24 pm
Model: FRP
Location: Odiham, Hampshire

FRP #032 The beginning...

Postby xnbradley » Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:55 pm

XAF wrote:Source of the post I did the whole underside of my FRP, had it etch primed then paintable stonechip applied, all for £400 including Soda blasting the tank and painting.


How much did you have to dismantle for this... did you gut the interior? did you remove engine...

Thanks
0 x

User avatar
XAF
Project Petrol Head!
Project Petrol Head!
Posts: 701
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:33 pm
Model: 1.7

FRP #032 The beginning...

Postby XAF » Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:03 pm

xnbradley wrote:Source of the post
XAF wrote:Source of the post I did the whole underside of my FRP, had it etch primed then paintable stonechip applied, all for £400 including Soda blasting the tank and painting.


How much did you have to dismantle for this... did you gut the interior? did you remove engine...

Thanks


Had the inside stripped anyway, but you don't have to, but the dust does get everywhere. Engine was left in, as were the fuel and brake lines though in hindsight I wish I'd taken those off or taped them up better.

The tank and original beam and shocks were taken off, as were all the clips. I put an old slave rear axle on, some dead shocks that didn't matter if they got overspray on and transported it with some old spare wheels.

This was it all ready to go for blasting:

Image

On the transporter ready to go:

Image


This was it all stripped and primed after blasting:

Image
0 x
2000 Puma Lux
2000 FRP #477

User avatar
xnbradley
Adolescent
Adolescent
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:24 pm
Model: FRP
Location: Odiham, Hampshire

FRP #032 The beginning...

Postby xnbradley » Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:59 pm

Looks good...

so did they tape up and seal the engine compartment... did that not need doing as well...

All of that for £400 is amazing... as a Paramedic I could easily earn that in a fraction of the time it would take me to do myself...

Do they blast a the interior of the frame as well... how did you go about finding a company to do it for you...

I think you have convinced me to get it done... I sold my Streetka today so have £1k in the fund... seema like a good investment... almost tempted to get it all stripped and do the whole thing...

The coach works guy I have found locally had a Ferrari Dino in his workshop... just the steel frame... taken back to bare metal... I need go find out if he has facility to shot blast there or whether he uses someone in particular...

Thanks for the encouragement...

Christian
1 x

User avatar
xnbradley
Adolescent
Adolescent
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:24 pm
Model: FRP
Location: Odiham, Hampshire

FRP #032 The beginning...

Postby xnbradley » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:27 am

Got an email this evening from the couple that bought the Streetka this afternoon... it broke down on M3 in road works... took them over four hours to get home... not good...
0 x

User avatar
tuonokid
Project Elder
Project Elder
Posts: 3096
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:41 pm
Model: 1.7
Location: Huddersfield

FRP #032 The beginning...

Postby tuonokid » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:17 am

If your coach works guy has a Dino in for restoration take your car to him for an assessment as He's obviously trusted with a valuable asset so I would assume he knows what He's doing.
Barry
0 x
2001 ColOrado red Puma 1.7, work in progress.
Westfield SEIW 1800 Zetec.
Building Westfield SEI 2.0 Zetec Blacktop on TBs.
Fiesta Style 1.25
Aprilia Tuono Factory.
1975 Yamaha TY80
Now working on my sons Anglia 105e

My Project Link - viewtopic.php?f=64&t=23509

ElDude at Allison Automotive
Garage
Garage
Posts: 1433
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:34 pm
Model: FRP
Location: Nottingham

FRP #032 The beginning...

Postby ElDude at Allison Automotive » Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:38 pm

xnbradley wrote:Source of the post Got an email this evening from the couple that bought the Streetka this afternoon... it broke down on M3 in road works... took them over four hours to get home... not good...


eek!..bet they were cursing you :o
0 x

ElDude at Allison Automotive
Garage
Garage
Posts: 1433
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:34 pm
Model: FRP
Location: Nottingham

FRP #032 The beginning...

Postby ElDude at Allison Automotive » Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:39 pm

xnbradley wrote:Source of the post I am not into having a trophy car for myself and others to admire... I want a car that I can drive... as much as I can... so my aim with #32 is to over the next 12 to 18 months... probably longer is to restore it to the best quality I can... not so it looks amazing... but so it can last for the next 30 years... I honestly hope that this will be my last car that I own... which I think is achievable...
...


Great mission statement..

8-) 8-)
1 x


Return to “ProjectPuma”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests