Budget Puma TURBO Project!!

yippeekiay · Post by **yippeekiay** » Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:07 pm

Thanks for the info. It's really leading me towards doing this in some form or other as I find the only thing lacking with the Puma is quite simply it's power. I think I could live with all the other nuances if it was more powerful which is against my initial plans for the car i.e I wasn't gonna bother about performance, but I now like the car more and more with each mod I do as even in standard form it's a wolf in sheeps clothing but I feel I would like to have a bit more bite to that wolf!!.

A quick question....Do you run the car at 7psi most of the time to keep wear and fuel costs down and just up it for special occasions?......and can you have the higher boost available at the flick of a switch as it were, or are some further tweaks required each time?

I don't really have a budget for any type of conversion (I was going to buy a VXR8) but obviously throwing money at it would have a limit at some point where a newer, more powerful alernative would be the better option.

warrenpenalver · Post by **warrenpenalver** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:16 am

I might do this for a laugh and fit it in a sportKA for big grins as a daily driver.

PumaNoob · Post by **PumaNoob** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:16 pm

Well that's exactly what I was going to do, but not a sport Ka, just a bog standard ka, with black bumpers, & banded steel wheels. If you stripped everything out, I think I'd be looking at nearly 300bhp per tonne, I reckon you could get one down to 800kg or less, so you'd give the big boys a shock!! This engine is comming out in about 2 weeks, so if I can pick up a cheap ka, that's what I'll do!
Yippekiay, I run 10 psi all the time, I only ran 7psi on standard ecu! I have another puma and a focus to drive if I want economy, but the really interesting thing is, it's actually really good on fuel if y ou don't drive it full throttle everywhere, because it only really boosts fully on full throttle. The engine is at lower revs for the same power, so less effort, less fuel!!If you wanted to switch boost, the cheapest and easiest way is a boost controller (that's what I use). You just turn the knob for more or less boost! You can mark it so you know where each boost level is! And you can even mount it in your car! It's just power on tap! The other option is an electronic boost controller, but can be very expensive.
My focus and other puma have cobwebs and moss all over them, I don't think I've driven either car for at leaste 6 months!!

clarkie · Post by **clarkie** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:34 pm

hmmmm. if your keeping your engine then dude ill have to start sourcing part then

if you think you have forgotten anything ill need off that previous list dude let me know as ill start looking for parts now

VVC MINI · Post by **VVC MINI** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:11 pm

Here the dyno graph. Power at wheels.

Pumanoob looking all cool with his 10 year old laptop

PumaNoob · Post by **PumaNoob** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:58 pm

Thanks mate, was wondering when I'd get those! So it's 207bhp @ the wheels, and about 350nm of torque! Quite a good power curve I think. just need to get a copy of the exhaust flame!! Don't diss my dinosaur laptop, that quick remap before we went in made me a few horses!!
Which one is bhp & which is torque??
Looks like I need to tweek my map a little, as it dips between 4800 & 5200, & then 5200 & 5800rpm. I'll give it another tweek with my "special" laptop!!

woody21 · Post by **woody21** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:41 pm

im glad u enjoyed ur day mate and glad u had some great news from the rollers

clarkie · Post by **clarkie** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:33 pm

"downpipe home made for £50
Exhaust £50 modified fiesta RS turbo exhaust"

you mentioned the above when you listed everything but what are the minor details?

im guessing you used the escort/fiesta rs turbo exhaust manifold and replaced the flange with the standard puma one to make it fit? and i know you made the downpipe yourself so im guessing again you chopped off the flange and added your own custom bit on from there?

and when you say you used the modified excort turbo exhaust does this mean i will loose my miltec system or does this mean i just need to modify it to fit? id rather not chop up the miltec but i will have a custom flange made up to make them fit.

the idea in my head is an rs turbo exhaust manifold with a standard 1/7 exhaust flange and gasket to fit it. the next bit needs to be custom right? so use the standard flange from the manifold then add your own custom pipe work then put the stnadard puma flange on the other end to mate it up to the miltec flange or if the standard one dont work ill mate it to the miltec flange. either way this should work right?

im just interested in how you done it all so i know what im lookin at doin. ill have to get a company to do all mine tho as i cant fabricate such parts at home lol

yippeekiay · Post by **yippeekiay** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:00 pm

Yeah, I'd like to see a picture if possible of the manifold, turbo and turbo exhaust exit into the exhaust system. I understand how they're routed to the turbo using the modfied flange to the manifold but my head can't get round how the exhaust gases are taken away from the turbo, is that the reason for the custom downpipe?...I think I may have just answered my question but not 100%...lol.

Been reading up a lot of info on Turbo vs Supercharger, the supercharger route seems the simplest but by christ they're not cheap...lol. Even a second hand one I've seen - a Rotrex 30-74 - is still kicking on for £750 or so and that's off a Saxo/106 so would need extra parts to fit the charger before then having to get an intercooler setup etc.

Marcus000 · Post by **Marcus000** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:59 pm

Yip, depends what sort of power gains you are after from a S/C, the Eaton 45 chargers off the Cooper S can be had for around £100 but they're quite large and not as powerful in comparison.

yippeekiay · Post by **yippeekiay** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:38 pm

They're pretty big superchargers so don't know where the hell you'd fit it...lol.

Was looking at a centrifugal one as it's much smaller then I could basically bin the A/C pump or swap the PAS for an electrical one and fit the S/C in the space available. Has anyone fitted an M45 so I can see pics etc.

The Rotrex one is rated from 150-300 bhp, yes, I'm not looking at a 300 bhp Puma but the option to go to that power gives plenty of scope...lol

PumaNoob · Post by **PumaNoob** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:09 am

Sorry ive not been on for a while, ive been working away from home, and not really had time to get on here!
@ Clarkie

you mentioned the above when you listed everything but what are the minor details?
im guessing you used the escort/fiesta rs turbo exhaust manifold and replaced the flange with the standard puma one to make it fit? and i know you made the downpipe yourself so im guessing again you chopped off the flange and added your own custom bit on from there?

and when you say you used the modified excort turbo exhaust does this mean i will loose my miltec system or does this mean i just need to modify it to fit? id rather not chop up the miltec but i will have a custom flange made up to make them fit.

No, i used the standard Puma exhaust manifold, and got a T25 flange welded to the bottom of it, as the spacings and port sizes of the RS turbo are different, and cant really be changed on cast, so would cause alot of power loss on a turbo set up due to turbulence!
For the downpipe, i brought 2.5" bends, and a saab 9000 downpipe (as thats the turbo im using), and cut the flange off the downpipe, then cut and welded the bends to suit, and then used the rest of the downpipe to fit it to where the cat back starts.
For the exhaust, most people dont realise that the shape of the fiesta RS exhaust is exactly the same as the puma/MK4/5 fiesta, so you just need to extend by about 50mm, and move hangers about, and youve got a 2.5" bore exhaust, for pennies!

You can keep the miltek catback, but the 4-2-1 will have to go!

the idea in my head is an rs turbo exhaust manifold with a standard 1/7 exhaust flange and gasket to fit it. the next bit needs to be custom right? so use the standard flange from the manifold then add your own custom pipe work then put the stnadard puma flange on the other end to mate it up to the miltec flange or if the standard one dont work ill mate it to the miltec flange. either way this should work right?

As far as im aware, the rs turbo port spacings and shapes are slightly different to the puma, but just check it 1st, but id be more inclined to use the puma exhaust manifold, and then chop the flange off the bottom, and get a plate and turbo flange welded to it. The 2 turbo pumas on here putting out decent power are both using this idea! The bit from the turbo to the cat back needs to be custom, but its quite awkeward because the bend radius is VERY tight! Then you can put whatever flange you want on there to make it fit your existing cat back.

@ yippeekiay

Yeah, I'd like to see a picture if possible of the manifold, turbo and turbo exhaust exit into the exhaust system. I understand how they're routed to the turbo using the modfied flange to the manifold but my head can't get round how the exhaust gases are taken away from the turbo, is that the reason for the custom downpipe?...I think I may have just answered my question but not 100%...lol.

Yes mate, you just answered your own question lol!! You just need a way of getting the gasses from the turbo, out the back of the exhaust,in the most efficient way. Ive tried to get picks of the exhaust, but its really difficult, as theres no space, the only picks ive got ill post up, i have some of the downpipe, and some from under the car. Ill be taking the engine out soon, so ill get some picks of it out of the car, it will be much clearer then.

I do have an eaton supercharger off a mini, and your right, its Massive, i was going to put it in place of my A/C compressor, but even with that gone, there just wasnt enough space! No doubt it is possible, but just wasnt worth the hassle for me.

PumaNoob · Post by **PumaNoob** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:21 am

Heres the custom downpipe i made (i say i made it, but i just tack welded it, and got somebody else to tig it properly)

These are the bends

Heres a turbo kit not fitted, it has the standard puma manifold

I thought i had some from underneath the car, but i cant seem to find them, so ill jack the car up today and take some if that helps??

VVC MINI · Post by **VVC MINI** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:52 pm

A/R 48 turbo isnt a T25!!! Thats a T28 compressor side. Could be of a 200sx. Whats the hot side do you know what the number is for that? Thats why its so dam fast

PumaNoob · Post by **PumaNoob** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:17 pm

Thats not my turbo, its one someone was selling! Im not sure what size mine is, but i dont think its that big!! Id have thought id get more lag if it was!
Just need to sort a clutch out now, as the 5 paddle clutch seems to have given up the ghost with any more power then 200bhp! Think im going to try a mondeo 2.0 clutch next. Think the clutch guy thought i was bluffing when i said how much power my car had, so thought id never find out the clutch cant handle the power. I think ill try an mtx75 box next week!!

PumaNoob · Post by **PumaNoob** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:21 pm

Lol at VVC minis location!!!! You fool, even with your new exhaust, you still cant beat the puma beast!!

EvilDonut · Post by **EvilDonut** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:47 pm

When you got the saab 9000 turbo did you need to adjust the wastegate at all? I just did some tests on mine with a bicycle foot pump (lol) and it seems like it only starts opening at 5psi and finishes opening at about 9psi. If my target boost is 5psi then a boost controller would be completely unneccesary for that wastegate, right?

PumaNoob · Post by **PumaNoob** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:05 pm

Thats right mate, the actuator pressure is 5 psi, it only starts opening then so it maintains the 5 psi, if it opened fully, it would bypass the turbine and drop below 5. If your actuator is the same as mine, if you just run a straight pipe to it from a boost source, youll run 5psi. Id reccomend you use a ball and spring type controller though, because the wastegate on mine starts to creep at about 4 psi, so you would loose a little power, its not much, but it makes a difference, and for £20 for a controller, you can tweek it up a tad for track days/drag strips! I think mine was running about 180/190bhp with 7psi on lower compression, so id have thought you might see around the same sort of figures with 5 or 6 psi, although i did spend about 2 days in my garage polishing and matching my manifold ports, but i really dont think that will make much difference on a turbo!

EvilDonut · Post by **EvilDonut** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:56 pm

Ah great, that simplifies things then as the actuator rod/arm is very heat-damaged - so much so that the adjustor screw cannot be turned. Its pitted and the connector to the wastegate is in bad shape too. Good to know I can just leave it as it is!

My main worry was that if it only opens at 5psi then the boost will always be some amount above 5psi, and that this might damage the engine.

I already have a boost controller. Its a metallic-red-coloured two-piece device (a T-piece and the adjustor piece) and it seems to be common on ebay (and cheap!). Not sure if I've bought myself a lemon here though, as 'buy cheap buy twice' usually holds true. I seem to remember seeing this on either your or BlackKnight's setup pics but I might be mistaken! I tested it with the bike pump but it doesn't work like that - it needs a steady flow of pressurised gas to regulate, so i'll have to test it 'in place'.

Yep I read somewhere on this forum that gas-flow improvements on the inlet side make no detectable difference in turbo systems as pressurised air isn't nearly as sensitive to turbulence etc as n/a, so I probably won't do that

I think what probably makes a big difference for your setup is that you have that awesome custom ECU....I so want one of those

It gives so much more scope for improving the fuelling and general tuning. Although...can it do variable VCT advances, or is it just a two-phase on-or-off type VCT controller? I'd definitely want variable I think!

PumaNoob · Post by **PumaNoob** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:39 pm

My ECU for fuelling is just the standard racing puma ECU!! I installed the megajolt to retard ignition timing!! When i was at about 180ish, i was just running standard FRP ecu! The megajolt can do VCT, but only on & off, not sequential.

That metalic red boost controller does the job, i had one installed for a while, but i was getting bad boost spike with it, it would boost to about 12psi breifly, before settling down to 7psi. That could prove quite costly for you if your not going to lower the compression, but its just for a split second, so its really up to you. Also some dont like them as they are a bleed valve, its basically a boost leak, but it never bothered me.

Ive tried mine without the VCT, and it just lacks that edge! But my advice would be to advance the exhaust cam 4 degrees like FRP settings, as you will get alot of valve overlap when the vct kicks in, and for forced induction, thats not good. It made a major difference in mine, so its something you might want to look into. Ive got a neat little trick to get the correct amount of advance if you know what you are doing with timing the 1.7 up, you dont need to touch the inlet cam, which is the one people dont like doing.
If you do decide to get a megajolt, ill be happy to send you my ignition map, or adjust it for your setup (mines set for 14psi, even though i only run 12psi)

EvilDonut · Post by **EvilDonut** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:53 pm

Yep I'd like to avoid those 12psi spikes I think! Might get one of the powerboost ones then - thats what you're using now, right? Does that give nice smooth control?

I don't really know what I'm doing when it comes to adjusting the cam timings, might be something I need to look into though.

Was the megajolt worth it? Again, might look into that eventually. My priority is to get the simplest possible base turbo set up first before I do any 'optional extras' though

PumaNoob · Post by **PumaNoob** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:10 pm

This is the boost controller im using, probarbly about £5 more then those cheaper ones, but now i dont get any boost spike.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Manual-Boost-Cont ... 1e5e54c8ba" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
In my opinion, its a really good item, but for decent money. For me the Megajolt is definately worth it, my car runs alot better and faster then it does with the FRP ecu, and idles smoother! Also retarding the ignition on boost is safer, but then im running more then double the boost you will be. In all honesty, if you only want to run 5psi, then the power gains from a megajolt probarbly wouldnt be worth the cost and hassle. Youd need to buy it, then youd need to get it wired in (thats if you dont want to do it yourself), then, if you want the most from it, youd have to get it mapped, or just use my map, and tweak it for your set up! Thats going to cost more then the turbo setup, so although it would be safer, and youd be better prapared for future mods, if it was me, i wouldnt bother until you want to get a little more power out of it.

VVC MINI · Post by **VVC MINI** » Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:13 am

EvilDonut if your actuator is staring to open at 5psi and then fully opens as 9psi there is something wrong with it. There shouldn't be such a big gap like that. If your looking for low boost your best to get a A series turbo actuator as they have one of the lowest openings at 4psi.

AaronPumaVCT · Post by **AaronPumaVCT** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:09 pm

What's the latest with this beast pumanoob ?

PumaNoob · Post by **PumaNoob** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:35 pm

Hey mate, everything is still fine, I don't drive it much now as I have my new project to work on, but took it for a drive a few weeks back on out "private air strip", & raced my mates lotus Elise'd engine mk1 mini, and it still drives awesome!! Puts the biggest smile on my face ever!! It's nice to drive after driving a van for work!! How is yours going, is it finished yet?

ProjectPuma • Ford Puma Owners Club

ProjectPuma • Ford Puma Owners Club

Budget Puma TURBO Project!!

Re: Budget Puma TURBO Project!!

Re: Budget Puma TURBO Project!!

Re: Budget Puma TURBO Project!!

Re: Budget Puma TURBO Project!!

Re: Budget Puma TURBO Project!!

Re: Budget Puma TURBO Project!!

Re: Budget Puma TURBO Project!!

Re: Budget Puma TURBO Project!!

Re: Budget Puma TURBO Project!!

Re: Budget Puma TURBO Project!!

Re: Budget Puma TURBO Project!!

Re: Budget Puma TURBO Project!!

Re: Budget Puma TURBO Project!!

Re: Budget Puma TURBO Project!!

Re: Budget Puma TURBO Project!!

Re: Budget Puma TURBO Project!!

Re: Budget Puma TURBO Project!!

Re: Budget Puma TURBO Project!!

Re: Budget Puma TURBO Project!!

Re: Budget Puma TURBO Project!!

Re: Budget Puma TURBO Project!!

Re: Budget Puma TURBO Project!!

Re: Budget Puma TURBO Project!!

Re: Budget Puma TURBO Project!!

Re: Budget Puma TURBO Project!!