"El Puma"

Hi JAC
As I said previously, have you checked the crankshaft and camshafts for endfloat, ie will they move in or out of the engine. That could explain the lack of running true on the pulleys? It seems that most of the engines mentioned here don't run the belt central on the pulleys but running off a pulley and onto the cambelt cover is well excessive.
Barry

Hi Barry,

Sorry, I forgot to mention that also, yes, he checked for endfloat. There doesn't seem to be anything wrong at all, which is why all that he/we can think of is a slight issue with the teeth on the inlet pulley.

Thanks.

Hi JAC
If there's no crank endfloat I wonder if the VCT pulley has been tampered with. I've never stripped the full unit down but I wonder if there's a wrong way of assembling it.
Barry

So, the next step of this saga!

The car was put back together this morning, but it seems the timing is off. There is no power over about 4k, it seems to stutter, and also the rev counter has stopped working.

The OBD is showing revs, so it must be a connection or something to the dash, but that doesn't explain the loss in power over 4k (or does it?).

The timing has been rechecked, the setting tool fits in perfectly, and the exhaust camshaft pulley has been installed properly (also checked it against the video that is on here somewhere, by pumanoob if I remember correctly), so we are lost as to what the issue may be.

It is staying in hospital over the weekend, and hopefully he can find out what is causing this (Ford were of no help whatsoever).

Unfortunately, this is turning into a nightmare of a project, and I've only just started (I keep getting the "told you so" from my other half ).

Hi JAC
When it was finally put back together were brand new bolts used on the crank pulley and the inlet camshaft pulley?
Barry

Hi Barry,

I am not sure, whatever was in the cambelt kit was used. Plus new water pump and Rocker cover seal.

Hi JAC
If any of the two pulleys I mentioned were taken off again as part of the checking the cambelt run new bolts should have been used as they are stretch bolts and should only be tightened once.
Barry

The bolts are not part of any cambelt kit as pulleys need no removing when replacing the cambelt. Do get the bolts ASAP and replace them as well. That is most probably what has caused the timing issues

Hi Sinisa
The bolts do come with the Gates kit but I don't know for any other kit.
Barry

Barry, are you sure about that? The bolts securing pulleys to the camshaft? Not the bolts for tensioner? I am alomst 100% sure in the kit are the bolts for the tensioner, not the ones securing thge pulleys to camshafts

Hi Sinisa
In the Gates kit I bought were the stretch bolts for the crank Pulley and the VCT pulley but not the exhaust pulley as that's not a stretch bolt and you just re-use the existing tensioner bolts as well.
Barry
PS in the instructions in the Gates kit it also tells you the torque/angle settings for the bolts

Thank you all for the input.

I have been back and checked this morning. The bolt was changed for a new bolt and hasn't been loosened since.

There is no end float, and the positioning of the pulley us correct, so basically he has no idea why the VCT is not working.

He is currently trying to get more help from other Ford dealers, but it is not going well.

And the pain continues

So... El Puma is still at the doctors, however, the simptoms have changed slightly.

After checking the timing for the umpteenth time, the VCT is now working, but only when the car is cold?!?!

When the car is cold, it works fine until it warms up and then the VCT stops working and we go back to the power dying at around 4k.

Oh wise ones... any ideas?

Hi JAC
Read this.
http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?p=284662" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It could be this.
Barry

Hi Barry,

Thanks for your reply, as always!

It looks promising, but I just have a couple of questions...

Could the solenoid be intermittent, causing it to work when cold but not hot, and not be due to the temp but pure coincidence?

Shouldn't the diagnostic show a fault for this, even if it is intermittent, shouldnt the log of the fault be in the ecu?

Thanks again.

Hi JAC
To be honest I'm just giving you ideas at the moment as I'm assuming the car was ok before the cambelt change so my thoughts are that it hasn't gone right. What I would ask for if I was there was the engine to be turned over by hand at least two revolutions in a clockwise direction and then check the timing with the crank pin and camshaft plate. If I could see that was right, I'd look to other things.
The next thing is how does your mechanic know the VCT isn't working? I'm trying to imagine how this could be diagnosed without diagnostics as just a power loss above a certain rpm wouldn't prove anything.
I wish I could give you more info as to how the VCT works but I've never worked on mine and never seen any good diagrams of it but oil pressure I would think would be very similar at 4000rpm whether hot or cold.
If there is a VCT fault I imagine a code would be stored but I'm struggling to think what would pick it up, unless the cam position sensor can do it, if it's an intermittent fault again not sure.
After this is posted I'm going to have a look on the net to see if I can find anything else.
Good luck
Barry

Thanks Barry, I really appreciate all the help you are giving me on this.

To answer your questions the best I can, let me give you a recap of what happened so far:

- The cambelt had never been changed in 17 years and 125.000km
- The car was running perfectly when I took it in for the cambelt changing, but the cambelt was flush with the outside of the pulleys.
- The Cambelt, waterpump and rocker cover gasket were changed for new parts, including tensioner and bolts.
- Once changed, the belt was running even further towards the oustide of the pulleys, overhanging by a few mm.
- The crankshaft pulley was changed for a new one, this solved the issue of the belt overhanging although it still runs flush with the outside of the pulleys.
- Once the car was put back together, upon testing the car, it ran fine until approx 4k rpm, where it started to stutter. The dash rev counter has also stopped working.
- While test driving the car with the diagnostic machine plugged in, the machin read revs ok, and at around 3900rm was when power started to die. The machine did not report any errors.
- The engine was dismounted again, the timing was checked and is fine. The engine was turned twice by hand and the timing is still spot on, this process was repeated at least 10 times, with no variation in the timing.
- The engine was put back together again and tested (this time without my presence) and the mechanic reported that it ran fine when cold, with the VCT kicking in at around 4k rpm, but once the engine was warm, it went back to losing power at around 4k.
- The mechanic let the car go cold and tested again, getting the same results.
- The mechanic has spoked to at least 15 other people (from Ford and other places) and noone has any idea.
- His plan is to test the oil pressure at the VCT tommorow.

Unfortunately that is where we stand.

You mentioned the solenoid, which after investigating a little, seems like it can be an issue after removing the rocker cover gasket, if this has not been changed in a long time. However, I also read that this shows a fault on the diagnostic machine, which is not showing. I have seen that Ian G has a solenoid for sale on ebay for about 37 pounds (which is a hell of a lot cheaper than new), which I could purchase and try if that may be the case.

At this point I am completely lost. My mechanical partner (not the mechanic working on the car) is also of no use as he has never worked on a VCT, and he has no access to the car as it is in the garage.

Again, I really appreciate your help, and that of any one else who can offer any ideas.

I would try hooking up a laptop to the car via OBD. Install on laptop forscan and then run live data. Check cam advance on VCT and you will see if it is working as it should while driving the car. You can also monitor almost anything you like and record it fro future reference or later checking

Ok. I am not sure what Dignostics Machine he is using, but I will take my laptop with Forscan and OBD scanner (usb) tomorrow.

Thanks.

Hi JAC
I wondered what you had done about the crank pulley, so you bought a new one? Was it the same part as your old one and could you see the difference why the old one was making the belt run off the pulleys? Also the reason I asked about the stretch bolts was I thought you had had the pulleys off more than once so I hope a new bolt was used with the new crank pulley. I'm glad that the pulley run issue is now solved
I'm really starting to struggle now with diagnosing what's wrong but I would imagine the rev counter not working might be an indicator of a fault if there is nothing showing on diagnostics. Replacing the solenoid may sort the problem but it won't cure the rev counter fault so definitely investigate that further. Also could the workings within the VCT pulley be at fault? If they or the solenoid are faulty it's a good idea to check the engine timing again before the engine is re-built.
Barry