Engine electrics died & now will not turn over

[Minter]

Hello

I have a bit of an electrical/engine issue which I hope someone on here can shed some light on...


I was driving along when suddenly the engine electrics failed - radio was on & didnt power down but lost all power to the engine - changed down a gear but still losing power so managed to coast car to a parking space in an industrial estate. I mentioned the change down in gear as I dont think it is engine seizure as it didnt lock the wheels up & also didnt slow up as if the engine was seized. The engine will not turn over & I cant hear any click either when turning the key. I have another Puma as a donor car so have swapped over the battery & relays but still no better. I have checked the engine earth strap & gearbox earth & both seem ok. I checked all other wiring I could reach from under the bonnet & found the speedo sensor wiring badly frayed where it enters the sensor housing. All three wires were in bad shape (copper wire showing) & appeared to be touching which would cause them to short out (this may be a red herring though as my other puma runs fine with the speedo sensor unplugged) I swapped the sensor with the good one anyway , but the engine still will not turn over. I have noticed that the air con button light is illuminated as soon as the ignition is switched on & will not turn off when the button is pressed (the light is on even with the heater switched off). Is this another red herring? It just seems strange that the light is on constantly as soon as the ignition is switched on (it wasnt like that before this fault appeared)

I fitted a new clutch a week ago & in my haste I forgot to attach the power cable at the alternator which became apparent after a couple of days as the engine died (lucky I didnt have a fire - I know ) I reattached the cable to the alternator & the car had been running fine for the past week. Have I goosed something up here? Could I have killed the starter somehow? If so, I wouldnt have thought that would have caused the engine to cut out. Could it be the ECU? :?: :? I really am confused here so would really appreciate your help,

Cheers

Lee

 

[CherryVimto]

Hi Lee

I'm not going to be much help here so will throw out a few suggestions, questions or ideas...

You've swapped over relays, but have you checked all of the fuses? Engine compartment and maybe in the cabin too?
Is the red immobilizer light on the clock flashing when the ignition is off?
When you turn the ignition ON, do any of the lights on the dash light up? i.e. ABS, AIRBAG etc..
When you turn the ignition ON, do you hear the fuel pump prime/make a noise.
Does the red immobilizer light on the clock flash or do anything when the ignition is turned on? Flashes quickly or remains the same, if it's actually on.
Do any of the external lights turn on with either the ignition switched OFF or ON?

I know you said the other Puma runs without the speedo sensor plugged in, but unplugging it isn't quite the same as the wires getting damaged and potentially shorting out so you can't really use that as a way to discount the speed sensor not working/being missing not being the potential cause of the issue.... if that makes any sense!
As there were damaged wires found which possibly may have caused an electrical fault, and bearing in mind the speedo sensor will be connected to the ECU, I personally would be looking at swapping the ECU with the one from the donor (and transponder in the key) but I would see if there are any other simpler suggestions crop up first.

Tony

 

[Minter]

Hi Tony,

thanks for the response, I must admit I didnt check all the fuses - the big fuses (40A & 60A) were all checked & looked ok. I also didnt check to see if the immobilizer light on the clock was flashing. All the lights on the dash display as normal when the ignition is switched on - the gauges do their initial sweep - I can only hear a single relay click once on initial ignition switch on (1st position on key) I cant hear the fuel pump prime. when I turn the key to position 2 to engage the starter motor absolutely nothing happens apart from the digital mileage display goes blank (that appears to be normal as the display goes blank on the other puma when cranking)

I suspected the speedo sensor may have shorted out & blown something somewhere but would have thought it would be a main fuse (i.e. 40 or 60amp) that would prevent the starter from engaging hence why I checked them & the relay's.

How easy is it to swap the ECU from one car to another? (If its not to big of a job then I could at least try it to see)

Lee

 

[tuonokid]

Hi Lee
Whereabouts do you live as it may be easier to plug it into Forscan to diagnose the fault and there may be a member near you that has Forscan. If there is a short somewhere on the system you may just blow the replacement ECU. By all means check the fuses though, as that's what they are there for.
Barry

 

[Minter]

Hi Barry,

I live on a rock in the middle of the Irish Sea (Isle Of Man) :grin:

I also work at a multi-franchised motor dealership so will get one of the tech's to get the hand scanner on it tomorrow (I will, of course, have to suffer the usual ridicule from the Tech's as I work on the admin side of things ) I was kinda hoping to avoid that

I have replaced the speedo sensor with the one on my donor puma & 'repaired' the original one (basically kept the wires apart & smothered in silicon :wink: ) & then fitted it to the donor ( havent had the guts to plug it in though just in case )

I am also thinking that I may have originally damaged the wires a week ago when I replaced the clutch (it fought me all the way ) & I didnt notice it when I put the gearbox back in. I really hope it is a fuse somewhere rather than the ECU though as that looks a bit of a hassle to change over the ECU - would also like to keep the donor car running as long as I can so would prefer not to have to take the ECU if at all possible, even if it is just for keeping me on the road on occasions like this.

Lee

 

[Frank]

[post]363008[/post] I was kinda hoping to avoid that

The best routes on this are the methodical elimination ones laid out above by Tony and Barry.

If you want a quicker, but uncertain route, then based on the symptoms described so far and factoring in your M.O. with the clutch change then I would go straight for the crank sensor, or more specifically, the crank sensor wiring/connector from sensor to the oval plug above the gearbox that connects the crank sensor to the ECU.

 

[Minter]

Hello Frank,

thanks for your advice,

so if the crank sensor is at fault would that stop the starter from engaging? I am new to Puma's so am unsure how the Ford system works but the vehicles I see with crank sensor faults (Land Rovers) at work normally turn over but wont fire up. (or so I thought :?: ) I have to stress, I am definitely NOT a technician (I last worked on cars when they called Technicians - Mechanics ) my 'skills' cover turning a spanner or socket & thats about it Oh... & I can hold a screw driver!

I have tried the methodical elimination process so far & have swapped out the battery, checked main fuses & relays (can only look at main fuses as the ones on my donor car are different & I dont have a multi-meter) but they all look fine. I checked earths & wiring connectors etc to see if I had left anything loose/unfastened but as far as I could tell everything seemed ok - thats when I noticed the speedo sensor wiring :-(







I replaced the speedo sensor with the one from the donor car & then I then swapped out all the relays (one at a time) to see if that made any difference (it didnt )

I am very appreciative for the advice I am getting here

Thanks again :grin:

Lee

 

[Frank]

[post]363010[/post] so if the crank sensor is at fault would that stop the starter from engaging?

No, all the ones I've come across would still let the engine crank.

I'm going on how the engine cut out on you, the non-priming fuel pump and the fact that crank sensor leads often get knocked about on clutch changes. Plus, it's possible you have multiple faults going on here. It's a long shot, but I figured it was worth mentioning as it's quick to check. Again, a long shot, but check the starter solenoid wires at the same time.

Some time, all those fuses will have to be eliminated as well.

The alternative, I'm afraid is the 'Walk of Shame' and get the tech to do the OBD II check for you.

 

[CherryVimto]

[post]363005[/post]the gauges do their initial sweep

Isn't this a usual sign of a bad battery/voltage issue? I didn't think the gauges were supposed to sweep round on ignition...?

[post]363005[/post]I can only hear a single relay click once on initial ignition switch on (1st position on key) I cant hear the fuel pump prime.

Fuel pump wont prime on position 1, it should prime on position 2.

[post]363005[/post]when I turn the key to position 2 to engage the starter motor absolutely nothing happens

Should be position 3?

[post]363006[/post]If there is a short somewhere on the system you may just blow the replacement ECU. By all means check the fuses though, as that's what they are there for.

My suggestion of swapping over the ECU was assuming that the damaged speedo sensor was the only cause of this issue and that had been replaced/repaired but always a good idea to go over everything possible in case there is, as suggested, any other underlying issues...

 

[Minter]

Hello again,,

ok, I am considerably embarrassed now as I have just checked the car in my lunch hour & re-checked ALL the fuses in the CJB - I found a 15amp fuse blown (looked ok from above)- swapped it out & the A/C light went off & the car started fine - thanks for all the help & suggestions - I am very happy I didnt goose the ECU but on reflection I think I should have checked all the fuses first before I started to 'overthink' it

Thanks, again

Lee

 

[CherryVimto]

Good news Lee!

Doesn't matter about the finer details, as long as you're now up and running!
:thumbs: