Help with brake parts?

[JAC]

Hi all!

So as to not post a million questions in my project thread, I thought I would post the specific questions in their own section, and stick to the progress in the project thread.

My first and most important issue is with brake upgrades.

As I am in Spain, I am having difficulties finding the items that are the most common here for brake upgrades.

I would prefer to do as little modification as possible, but at the same time, make the upgrade worth while, so I decided to go with the Fiesta ST 150 that seem to be so popular (and are a direct fit).

However, as a kit, I can only find sport versions, and they are betwee 1800 and 2500€! Seeing that I only paid 1900€ for the car, it seems a little steep

So, going with seperate parts, I am also struggling to find a selection to choose from. The best I have managed to come up with so far are:

Bosch 0 986 479 637 discs at 75€ each (here is a link to that model in the uk: http://www.bestpartstore.co.uk/690851" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false

And TRW calipers model BHQ302E at 125€ each (uk link to the specific part: http://www.skscarparts.co.uk/braking-brake-caliper-bhq302e-trw.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false

So, my questions are...

Are these models the correct models for a direct bolt on?

Can you point to an other brands with part numbers that I can try to search for here?

This would work out at 400€ + pads, so probably close to the 500€ mark, which is a hell of a lot cheaper than 2000€! I also found some calipers from a scrap yard, but they want 150€ for the pair, and I think I would rather pay 250€ for new (if the TRW ones are any good).

Any tips would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks all!

 

[JAC]

Just to say, I can also find brembo discs for the newer model puma (258mm, which I understand are also a direct fit) but cannot find brembo calipers either. I found some Hella calipers. This would work out slightly cheaper than the Fiesta ST discs and calipers.

I would also replace the back drum brakes. Not planning on a disc conversion, but I think that 258mm on front and new rear brakes should make a difference, or am I mistaken?

 

[quest63]

Hi there unfortunately the calipers in your link are rear calipers and not front calipers. I'm sure new front ones would be much more expensive.

Most people buy used calipers and fit those, perhaps with new disks but not necessarily.

If necessary you can fit a new seal kit to each one and have them sand blasted and powder coated in a colour of your choice

 

[JAC]

Thanks quest. I didn't notice (didn't read) the description in English, the Spanish web I found them on had them in the "front" section.

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

You will have a nightmare times trying to find anything ST150 that isn't Ford branded. The calipers themselves are made by Ate but only as direct order by Ford. I know, I have been there trying to find Brembo, TRW etc.. You will always find just the rear ones as they are the same as Mk1 focus uses.
Your best option is to go for used ones on ebay and recondition them yourself. That is what I did...

 

[JAC]

Thanks. I am struggling to find the ST150 parts (unless I want to spend 2k!).

What about the upgrade to the newer puma brakes? I seem to be able to find those at a reasonable price.

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

Here you have complete set for reasonable price. The postage to Spain will probably double the price (may I suggest using parcelmonkey as I have found them to be the cheapest option to Croatia) but still long way off 2 keuro....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Fiesta-St150-Front-Brake-Upgade-Ideal-Kit-Car-Puma-ka-Fiesta-/181908303935?hash=item2a5a94703f:g:W2QAAOSwl9BWJjjs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Plus you don't need the hubs; different ABS on them, just adding the weight to your package

 

[JAC]

Thanks for the link, definately a better price than here.

Tomorrow I am meeting with my "mechanical" partner to go through the parts list and see what he thinks is the best option (as he will need to do the work). Although this is supposed to be a joint venture on the Puma, the more I drive it, the more I think I will keep it for myself and find some other toy to share

 

[JAC]

So, after all afternoon searching the web, we can't find the "mounts" for the newer model Pumas either. We can get the calipers and disks (for about the same price as the older versions), but not the part that the pads mount onto (sorry, I don't know the correct English term).

We came across a few in the UK, both new and used, but the cost of shipping doubles the price.

We will try to source them through our usual spare parts place this week, but if not, then I guess I will have to stick with the same setup that I have, because I don't want to drive the car in its current braking conditions for too long.

My final alternative is to find some high quality discs and some softer brake pads, and also change the rear brakes. Hopefully that will be enough for now, and I can continue to look for upgrades at a later date.

I know it is sort of a waste, but I also need to change the suspension and the timing belt, so even this route means spending 1000€ in the next week or so.

 

[quest63]

The term for what the calipers mount to is carriers :thumbs:

 

[jimfrp88]

From what I remember, the 1.6 Zetec s mk5 Fiesta, 1.25/1.4 mk6 Fiesta and I think the 1.6 Sport Ka are the same.. Might be worth a quick Google search to confirm though k:

 

[JAC]

I am still trying to get organized with the larger discs, however, in the mean time I am also trying to sort out rear brakes.

As my car is an early 98 (so built in 97) I guess that it has the smaller 180mm drums?

I am looking at a pre-mounted kit by Ferodo, specifically the FMK330

It supposedly comes with the cylinder and new bolts etc.

Any reason I shouldn't go with this?

Also, is it worh while getting new drums also?

 

[Frp483]

Had one of the series 1 (97 cars ) the back drums are absolutely terrible to adjust and if not done correctly it has a big impact on the braking. if you want to improve the brakes you are best doing the mondo and st170 disk conversion, it makes a massive improvement, and I have seen people do this using 15" wheels. To change the back drums to disks can be very expensive, there is quite a bit different. Most people start the conversion then find out that the hand brake cable is different. To do the job right you need the Frp hand brake cable which are like chickens teeth. Most people end up using the focus 2ltr one which I think is longer and ends up snagging.

 

[Ian G]

FMK330

Any reason I shouldn't go with this?

Also, is it worh while getting new drums also?

Only that its for the 180 and you probably want 200s at some point.

If you can get the drums locally too then you've basically got the heavy bits, adjusters and things of that nature could be sourced here and sent over.

Ditto the front - calipers and carriers* can be sent and although heavy don't make it impossible.

Then just find out what is missing when you fit and order that up from over here. Backing plate is sheet steel so you'd not notice that weight increase in a box with front calipers.

* - often more difficult to find than calipers because there's an expectation that you'll have them. If you can find the project thread for my track car you'll see I had the exact same problem with trying to fit Fiesta ST 280mm equipment, plenty of places to buy a caliper brand new but they assume you will retain your caliper which in my case - same as yours - was not suitable from the 239mm Puma.

 

[JAC]

Thanks @Frp483, unfortunately the disk convesion is not a possibility here in Spain, it would cost more in engineering fees to legalize it than the car is worth!


@Ian G, thanks as always for your intput. The carriers are the major issue as you say, but I will need everything to change from 239 to 254, as I think it is the only way I will be able to not have to legalize it, as they are still puma parts and there aren't enough Puma's here for them to notice

I basically need to put a full list of what I need to buy/source, and then work out what is worth shipping or not. I just don't want to be a pain and keep asking you to calculate shipping!

 

[Ian G]

There's only four rates so its no problem

£7.75 up to 1kg
£12.75 1kg to 2kg

£22 over 2kg to about 20kg I think, or large boxes.

Over that amount, forget it, cheaper for me to have a holiday and bring them. :lol:

 

[Frp483]

Engineering fees, hows that work,? Does it have to be proven fo the particular model car?

 

[JAC]

Yes, over here they are a little "over the top" with MOT's. Anything that is not an original part of the car must either:

a) come with a certificate saying that it is made for your car and EU approved for your specific model, then you have to also present a certificate of installation by a certified mechanic, then you have to have it inspected specifically and included on the paperwork. This costs around 200€ - 500€ depending on the part plus the labour charged by the "certified mechanic".

or

b) if the part doesn't have a certificate that it is valid for your specific model of car but does have an EU standard approval, then an engineer must perform a study and issue a project with a final inspection by the engineer when the work is done, this must also be presented with a certificate of installation be a certified mechanic and must be specifically inspected by the MOT and included on the paperwork. This costs around 400€ - 2000€ depending on the size of the modification, plus the cost of the certified mechanic.

There are some things that can't be "legalized" at all, like reprogramming of the ECU to gain power or the modification of the admision etc.

Some other things are possible, but far too expensive to be worth it. For example, if I want to modify my dash I would need to present crash test reports from a specific lab etc.

For this instance, regarding the brakes, I have realised that the Puma is pretty unknown in Spain, and even a lot of car spare suppliers don't realize that there are 2 sizes, they just list 97-02. What I am planning on doing is intalling the brakes from the newer model so I can just state that I purchased them and they are for a Ford Puma.

Obviously these are not going to be a huge improvement over the originals, but I need to change the disks and drums anyway, so I had might as well gain the few mm if I can. I am thinking that some decent drilled and grooved disks and soft pads, along with new rear brakes (even if I stick with the 180) should be a pretty decent improvement over my current braking powers.

 

[tuonokid]

This is like the German TUV certification. Thank god we don't have it over here, what a pain in the ass!
We can still build kit cars over here as well as modify standard cars and we should fight Europe as much as we can to retain it!
Barry

 

[Frp483]

mad, and they call the EU a free market economy, all this does is stop aftermarket manufactures from making kits, and selling them in Europe without greasing the hands of some bureaucrat for certification. As for the EU trying to stop this in the UK don't even go there, it's just another one of those reasons why it is not working any more.