Power Steering... I'm stumped...

[xnbradley]

Hey there...

need some advice... my power steering is one of the reasons that #32 has recently failed its MOT...

today I have dismantled the reservoir and majority of the pipes, made sure that everything is clear... put it all back together... filled with fluid and bled it properly... level not going down anymore whilst turning lock to lock... then I did the same with the engine running... level is constant now... so I am pretty confident there is no air lock...

The belt is running nice and smoothly on the PAS pump and no strange sounds coming from the pump... I get all the same sounds when I turn the key to position II as I do with my other puma... same clicks and hums for the same amount of time... but with my other one... as soon as the engine is started the steering is light and how it should be.. on #32 it makes no difference... it is the same as if the engine was not running...

I am stumped... I have tried to look online to find out if there are any fuses etc that I need to check... and I can't find anything helpful...

Can anyone give me any more things to try... or any advice that will help me locate the problem and then try to fix... I kinda want to do all that I can before simply taking it to a garage... the AC has been removed... I am presuming that this would make no difference...

Any help would be awesome...

Thanks

Christian

 

[zinc2000]

Might be a silly question but are you sure the pump is actually working? ie although the pump pulley is turning smoothly (I assume it is) is it actually turning the pump as well?
Given the work you have already done in reality all it leaves is the pump itself

 

[xnbradley]

This is definitely a silly question...

How can you tell if it is working or not?

Thanks

 

[tuonokid]

I would have thought if you took off the reservoir cap whilst the engine was running there would be some agitation inside the reservoir. Where is your pump now you say the A/C has been removed, at the back or front of the engine?

 

[xnbradley]

So... I have managed to run a PCM Key On Engine running On Demand Test using ForScan... and it through up only two codes... everything else passed ok... which is a relief...

DTC P1116 - Engine Coolant sensor out of range/ECT Sensor Out Of Self Test Range not worried as it passed the Engine Off test so the coolnt just not hot enough...

DTC P1650 - this code indicates the Power Steering Pressure (PSP) input to the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) is high. In the key ON engine running (KOER) self-test, this code indicates the PSP input did not change state.

Possible Causes
- Faulty Power Steering Pressure (PSP)
- Power Steering Pressure (PSP) harness is open or shorted
- Power Steering Pressure (PSP) circuit poor electrical connection
- Damaged Powertrain Control Module (PCM)

Does this mean that PSP Switch Out of Self Test Range indicates that it is the Power Steering Pressure Switch that is at fault? or if the pump is not working... would it throw off the same Code?

Thanks

 

[xnbradley]

Hey there...

Pump is at the front...

Thanks

 

[xnbradley]

forgot to say...

I think I read somwhere that there is a fuse for the PSP Switch... is this right.. might be something as simple as a blown fuse... or am I being a little naive...

 

[xnbradley]

Interesting... according to FordWiki...

P1650

Error Description

Power Steering Pressure (PSP) Switch Malfunction In Key On, Engine Off Self-Test, this DTC indicates the PSP input to the PCM is high. In Key On, Engine Running Self-Test, this DTC indicates that the PSP input did not change state. Steering wheel must be turned during Key On, Engine Running Self-Test PSP switch/shorting bar damaged SIG RTN circuit open PSP circuit open or shorted to SIGRTN PCM damaged

It didn't fail in KOEO test... only failed in KOER... so maybe it is a short somewhere in the wiring... still not sure if any of this would cause the power steering to not work at all.

 

[xnbradley]

These three codes that I didn't get... makes me think that the problem is with the pump... rather than the switch.

P0552
Error Description
Power Steering Pressure (PSP) Sensor Circuit Malfunction The PSP sensor input signal to the PCM is continuously monitored.The test fails when the signal is open or shorted to ground. PSP sensor damaged SIG RTN circuit open or shorted VREF circuit open or shorted PSP sensor signal circuit open or shorted Damaged PCM The DTC indicates the PSP sensor circuit is open or shorted to ground.

P0553
Error Description
Power Steering Pressure (PSP) Sensor Circuit Malfunction The PSP sensor input signal to PCM is continuously monitored. The test fails when the signal is shorted to power. PSP sensor damaged SIG RTN circuit shorted to power VREF circuit shorted to power PSP sensor signal circuit shorted to power Damaged PCM The code indicates the PSP sensor circuit is shorted to power.

P1550
Error Description
Power Steering Pressure (PSP) Sensor Malfunction The PSP sensor input signal to PCM is continuously monitored. The test fails when the signal falls out of a maximum or minimum calibrated range. PSP sensor damaged Damaged PCM The DTC indicates the PSP sensor is out of Self-Test range.


although... I really don't have a clue what I am talking about :?

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

I have never moved PS pump to the front, but is the pulley turning now in the same direction as before? Water pump is sensitive to that, not sure on PS pump?

 

[xnbradley]

PAS Pump pulley definitely turning in the right direction.

 

[Ian G]

I'd be tempted to try a pump on it.

My understanding is the pressure sensor is only there to address any problem with low line pressure and wouldn't prohibit assistance.

Assuming you're currently running the standard 1.25/1.4/1.6 +PAS -AC ancillary setup in which case any of those can donate.

You also don't say whether the pump sounded like it was working while it was off, turning by hand you will get some gargles as the residual fluid moves about inside.

 

[xnbradley]

That kinda makes sense... the switch is there to make sure there is not too much pressure... so even it was faulty wouldn't stop the power steering working...

I will check for gurgles... but I think i am going to need to switch pumps and see if that solves it...

need to get it all sorted this week... welding being done on Thursday... and I will use a couple of bottles of the emissions cleaning stuff and hopefully it will get through...

Cheers

 

[xnbradley]

Definitely the pump... no agitation of the fluid at all when engine running...

also ran the live diagnostics on Forscan and on my Black Puma... the PSP Switch read low until I locked the wheel and then it went to high... in the FRP... just read low all the time... no matter what I did...

got there in the end...

Thanks for all the comments..

 

[Ian G]

[post]358313[/post] the switch is there to make sure there is not too much pressure

Other way round - its there to detect and mitigate low pressure by increasing engine RPM but it has no means to reduce pressure.

 

[zinc2000]

Definitely the pump... no agitation of the fluid at all when engine running..

I am saying nothing

 

[xnbradley]

yeah I know...

but I have learnt a heck of a lot about PAS... and that is part of the reason I bought it...

 

[zinc2000]

learning is what it is all about, sometimes it is very easy to overthink things, go for the obvious first then work out from there.....glad you got it sorted and impressed that you drove it without the pas

 

[xnbradley]

Hey there...

Just spent nearly three hours removing the old PAS pump... fitted the new one... removed all air... was looking great...

took it for a drive...

hasn't made a blind bit of difference...

ideas?

 

[zinc2000]

No ideas at all but....jack it up so the front wheels are off the ground, try steering with and without engine running, is there any difference at all?
Basic I know but might just give you some kind of hint