Engine won't ignite - Possible fuel pump?

[blagger89]

Afternoon all, seems the heat was too much for my Puma.

In traffic went to pull away and the car seemed to have stalled out, no warning lights, oil is fine (did change on saturday), temp gauge normal. Tried turning it over and it just shudders and sounds as if was trying to start up. Was getting to 500 revs then conking out essentially feeling like a stall.

Managed to get it off the road and breakdown came out and said possible Crankshaft sensor or coil pack has gone on it.

Garage this morning said that they think its more the fuel pump has gone and thats why its not doing anything, quoted about £300-£500.

Unsure what to do, considering paying to get Crankshaft and Coil Pack fixed to rule that out, but do that myself.

Like i said, no error codes are coming up so wondering if anyone has a bit of advice or knowledge on what it could be.

Don't fancy paying to get it fixed at a garage, its W reg 1.7 with just over 130,000 miles on the clock, did fly through MOT in February and given a weekend I *COULD* probably get the parts and change over myself.

Just trying to rule out as much as possible so any help would be great.

 

[tuonokid]

Hi
Try turning the ignition on (not as far as the starter motor) whilst stood outside the car and you should hear the fuel pump prime the fuel rail (a high pitched wine for a couple of secs). If it doesn't do that it could be the fuel pump or it's fuses and relays. If it primes it could still be a faulty fuel pump but it's less likely.
For a total failure of the engine I would think the most likely failure is the crank sensor as usually coil packs fail slowly ie starts off as a misfire and then gets worse.
Barry

 

[blagger89]

Ok thanks, I'm about to call the garage again to check what it is exactly they tested, if they confirm that the fuel pump doesn't prime then Ill take it home tonight and put a new one in this weekend once I find a reasonable guide as I haven't got the Fiesta Haynes at my house. I can't recall last night if I could hear it as the traffic going by was pretty loud, but i think it was priming.

Mechanic checked all the relays and fuses and they were fine.

Thanks again, ill post again once ive spoken to the garage again and checked if the fuel pump primes.

Edit - Called garage and the mechanic was out on lunch. They are fairly sure its the fuel pump, ill be picking it up tonight and pushing it round the corner to my house so won't be able to update till then.

 

[748]

Edit - Called garage and the mechanic was out on lunch. They are fairly sure its the fuel pump, ill be picking it up tonight and pushing it round the corner to my house so won't be able to update till then.

I wouldn't want to be pushing a car anywhere in this heat tonight :lol:
Good luck with it. Hope it's not an expensive fix.
Paul

 

[blagger89]

Dad managed to tow me home so thats all fine.

Turned the key and there was no sound from the fuel pump, compared it to a L reg Corsa and mums new Hyundai and there was distinct sound you could hear from there cars and nothing from mine so looks like it is the fuel pump.


Ive had a look on ECP for the part but can anyone point me in the direction of which type it will be, whether its the whole unit or what? Looking to get ordered tonight/tomorrow and delivery for Friday special delivery or Saturday to give me all weekend to sort it. Got some axle stands to get the car up in the air so just a case of getting it up and the removal of the tank!

 

[Wilge]

Hi mate

I would be checking the fuses and relay under the bonnet myself, mine did something similar when it went for its MOT, the garage said they had worked on it for 40 mins and found that there was no fuel getting through so must be the fuel pump.
Got it home and first checked the fuse, it had blown, replaced the fuel filter and it's been fine since.
Some machanics done do electrics that's the job of an auto electrician.

Just a thought?..

Cheers

Wilge

 

[tuonokid]

Wilge is right, all the fuses and the fuel pump relay want proving before you start with the pump. If it is the pump contact Ian G on here and he'll source you the correct pump but you'll have to drop the tank and the red fuel connector on the pump is a right sod to get off.
Barry

 

[Fanwheel]

Hi there

+1 for Ian of Puma Bits. He sorted me a replacement fuel pump last month...

My Puma cut out as I was reversing into a parking space and wouldn't start after that. Possibly partly my fault for letting it go nearly empty (RAC theory was that pumps can overheat in these circumstances, since the fuel acts as cooling).

Garage I used was quoting similar to yours. It became a faff as they could only find extortionately priced pumps - and the exact version wasn't clear as my build date was during a cross over period from 1 part to another.

Luckily Ian identified the correct pump with the VIN details and swiftly couriered It. His reconditioned one cost far less than garage had quoted and I just paid an hour's labour. So if you struggle I would recommend Ian - just look up Puma Bits on eBay.
Will

 

[blagger89]

Brilliant thanks for that will do. I'll get the VIN tomorrow as I'm at my mates house so I can get to work tomorrow with him.

The breakdown guy came out and checked the fuses and relays but I'll double check tomorrow night too as he may have missed one and knowing my luck it'll be the one i need!

 

[Ian G]

Thanks chaps.

Probably a YS6UDD depending how far in to W reg it is - http://bit.ly/1RSKa2a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That said it could be built earlier.

Give me a call tomorrow with the reg or VIN and I'll sort it.

 

[blagger89]

As a side note to this -

Any ideas on how to get the last of the fuel out, put £20 in and done 130 miles on it so its just sat above empty.

Obviously the fuel pump doesn't work so can't drain it that way and don't fancy siphoning it out by mouth!

 

[The Arch Bishop]

Draper squidgy bulb type syphon did the trick for me. I removed the filler hose from the tank and got the syphon in that way.

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

As a side note to this -

Any ideas on how to get the last of the fuel out, put £20 in and done 130 miles on it so its just sat above empty.

Obviously the fuel pump doesn't work so can't drain it that way and don't fancy siphoning it out by mouth!

You can do it by mouth,but in reverse mode. You need two hoses. One to drain the fuel out (obviously) and another (can be smaller) just to be in tank, not necessary the fuel. Take a rag or something similar to seal it best you can and just blow as much as you can in the tank via the smaller tube. Hold the pressure you created and at one point the fuel will start going out through the other hose. It works, no danger of tasting the fuel and no need for anything. If you have compressor at your disposal, you can use it (but carefully) to build up the pressure inside that will start the fuel flow

 

[Ian G]

Parcelforce have pulled that one out the hat there, dropped at Liverpool depot at about 6pm, was in Portsmouth at 10.30 this morning :lol:

 

[blagger89]

Turned up about 11 in my hands this morning.

Absolute belting service there much better than Royal Mail who still haven't delivered something else and thats coming from Southampton!

Thanks very much Ian, will be attempting to take out the tank tonight so fingers crossed should have it done by Sunday :lol:

 

[blagger89]

Quick update - Easily got 2 of the 4 bolts off, the outer ones seem to have had a retainer clip on top which has snapped/rusted off so theres 2 square bits of metal stopping the bolt from unscrewing!

Quick spray of WD40 and a trip to Halfords for a Mole grip (lost mine) and ones off. Time for pizza before trying the back right one with minimal space to work around.

Edit - Finished for the evening, got the fuel tank out finally.

This is the little bugger that slowed me down, both the "edge" bolt retainers were like this. Anyone know what I should buy to replace these, would a washer and nut that fits on the bolt suffice?

These were a bit of a pain to get off, seeing as I've never done this type of thing before, usually I stick to bearings, brakes and alternator/starter motor so this was all new!

As you can see I didn't have much room underneath to get around but it wasn't too bad

]
Finally got it out!

Next up a few questions,
How do I get the pump unit out if anyone can shine a light on that! Stopping for the night now as lights faded but will be up nice and early to get it sorted.
Before refitting it back into the car, is it safe to leave underneath but wired up and start it up to make sure its all working?
The hose clips that I took off are once only clips, where can I get replacements or should I just get the normal clips you use with a Neggy screwdriver, and if so, what size do I need? Rather not be walking around the shop clueless!

Thanks in advance, its been an adventure!

 

[tuonokid]

The nuts/clips are called chimney nuts and you need them in 8mm thread size.
Barry

 

[Ian G]

Pump comes out by hammering the retaining ring anti-clockwise. With a good drift, chisel or screwdriver you don't mind putting to that job.

Rear hangers I would suggest can be replaced with regular nuts and washers, not sure if there's a special reason why they're those pain in the ass clips that rust and fail. For something that's supposed to be captive they don't typically do a good job after a few years under there.

Hose clips you can use Jubilee clips, hoses are 26mm and 50mm external.

Safe to wire up and leave not bolted up but be mindful of the amount of freedom on the hoses and wiring. You might need to jack it back in to position but not bolt.

 

[blagger89]

Thanks for that guys.

All sorted!

Got the pump out with a bit of hammering and the new pump Ian G sorted me out with works like a charm!

Popped to screwfix this morning for some hose clamps and Homebase for the nuts and washers.

Took a lot longer to get back in (even after jacking the car up a bit more!) due to having to balance it and shift it round the exhaust pipes and rear strut bar (or whatever that is).

Drove it into town and back and no issues, got back and looked through tools for my mole grip to find it was still attached to a nut on the tank. Woops.

Total costs were about £100 as I had to buy axle stands and a jack and a few bits and pieces but much cheaper than the £300+ the garage said.

HAPPY FREAKING DAYS. Now time for an ice cold beer and watch Wimbledon.

Ps - Thanks very much Ian for sorting the pump out for me with the delivery too!

 

[Ian G]