Handbrake n/w despite attention!!

[Mustardmit]

I'm pulling my hair out with frustration and trying not to eff and blind here.
My Puma recently failed its MOT on the handbrake (13% efficiency - passenger side not working at all).
I bought new shoes and followed instructions kindly provided by ScubaSteve, everything in place and adjusted/lubricated as per intructions but the handbrake is STILL not working.
When the handbrake is applied, the cable ends squeeze up ok and the swing arms move freely but there is virtually no movement in the shoes
I've tried everything from pumping the brake like mad to get the self-adjusters to tighten, to taking up the slack at the handbrake end pretty much as far as it will go. I have three working days (including one where I have to work) to get it back before the 10 days are up and I have to fork out for a complete new MOT and I'm rapidly running out of funds.
Any help/magic answers GREATLY appreciated.
Cheers
MM

 

[quest63]

The handbrake adjusters are adjusted by the foot brake so firstly I would jack it up put it on axle stands and get someone to press the footbrake while you check the rear brakes are actually working. You may have siezed rear brake cylinders or perhaps the rears need bleeding or both. If the rear brakes arent working your adjusters wont be getting pushed out at all or maybe not getting pushed out far enough.

If that doesnt do it the adjusters themselves may be siezed so again the shoes arent getting pushed out far enough. In this case remove them, manualy ease them and grease them. There are two types one a flat bar type on the older pumas mines a 2000 and has them, and another thats more pen like or cylindrical in nature like ScubaSteves.

If this doesnt work consider replacing the adjusters I was struggling to get a decent handbrake even though it passed its MOT and didnt really want to fork out nearly £60 for them from Fords. When I finally replaced them the handbrake was brilliant loads of hold with hardly any effort on the handbrake at all.I'm guessing since yours didnt fail on footbrake its more likely an adjuster problem. I also noted that mine had very little visable wear but simply didnt work

 

[Mustardmit]

Thanks.
I did get someone to check then swapped over and I checked too. The brakes/cylinders are fine when operated by foot.
While I was in there, I figured out how the adjusters work (they are the cylindrical type) they did seem to be a bit 'inactive' so I removed both and squirted them full of WD40, removed one of the springs and tested for movement. They seemed ok before I put them back in but I think I'll need to remove them and overhaul them carefully on the kitchen table as availability/price seems to be a major issue.
Everything else seems ok and I can't think what else might be wrong. The only other thing I thought was that either the cables are stretched beyond adjustment or that the anchor point where the front ends sit has broken off but I've not come across this since literally SCOURING the forum :-/

 

[quest63]

I found with mine I could manualy open up the adjuster and the shoes would hold themselves out.In fact the way I fitted them they were held too far out to get the drums back on, and on my flat bar type I had to push the post in with a screwdriver to get them to close. But despite this and them looking like they had minimal wear they simply must have been slipping.

It might even just have been down to tired springs on the adjusters maybe you can buy them separately or find some other spring from somewhere?

Good luck with it :thumbs:

 

[Mustardmit]

Mine are the cylindrical type (I edited my previous reply with that info and more) I had to screw them in to get the drum back on - assuming that the 'self adjustment' mechanism would unscrew them again when I pumped the brakes but maybe it won't.
What a bloody palaver!

 

[quest63]

You'll be buzzing when its fixed I could put my handbrake on now with my little finger and it would hold it up the side of everest.

Make sure when you adjust the handbrake cable when its fixed that you dont over tighten it. I found with mine that the drums were getting hot even though the car didnt feel like it was being slowed by the handbrake and that there was only a turn or so on the adjuster on the handbrake lever between hot drums and cold drums when driving.

 

[alanH]

yeah the hand brake on the standard drum brakes a bugger to sort, you really have a problem if theres a lip on the drum. The last time i did my mk1 I removed the lip and wound up the adjusters untill the drum had to be tapped on with a mallet, then drove it for 2 miles, since then its passes the mot 3 times with out fail and the hand brakes good leaves two even 11s when applied. Incomparison FRP rear disk adjustments really easy, You only have to run up the road and do a quick hand brake turn and Noal Gallagher SORTED.

 

[quest63]

I wouldnt have minded doing a handbrake turn to fix my brakes...but doing Noel Gallagher is a bit extreme :shock:

:grin:

 

[ScubaSteve]

use brake cleaner on them and bend the brass springs in so it grabs more

 

[Mustardmit]

Thanks for the advice Quest/Steve.
Update:
I've taken the adjusters out and given them a damn good clean up including scraping out ALL of the ratchet notches with a scalpel! Made sure they worked ok (which they now do) put them in and hey presto - b*gger all difference, despite pumping like crazy on the footbrake !
There are (approx) 1.5mm lips round the inside edges of the drums, maybe I should file these off then manually tighten the adjusters until I can only just get the drums back on.

 

[martinthrapston]

pumping on the foot brake wont make a difference,have you thought about replacing the handbrake cable as that might be stretched and no longer any good????

 

[ScubaSteve]

Pumping the footbrake is how the self adjusters self tighten. Also pulling the handbrake on and off. Try maybe opening the adjusters out a bit

 

[quest63]

My understanding was also that the footbrake adjusted the shoes outward however if the adjuster is slipping it doesnt really matter how the shoes get pushed out by the adjuster, it will just jump the teeth or at least it will with the older flat bar type of adjuster.

 

[Ian G]

I had one fail on the adjuster slipping, stripped it down and cleaned out the teeth but that'll only buy you so much grip, would be better to replace if they're worn.

 

[Mustardmit]

The teeth on my adjusters (cylinder not flat type) are not worn and are now clean after I had at them with brake-cleaning fluid and a scalpel.
I assumed they 'self-adjust' when the shoes return after the footbrake has been applied.
When operated by hand -by pushing the ends in- I've see how they work, it's a ratchet mechanism.
I did open the adjusters out a bit (in situ by pushing the teeth with a screwdriver) I think I need to do this again with the small lip inside the drums removed.

 

[quest63]

I guess its the case that people can have the same / similar symptoms but with different or varying combinations of causes.

I was really reluctant to get new adjusters for mine particularly at £60 and particularly as my adjusters didnt seem that worn.

But after trying everything else including stripping and cleaning and greasing, and removing heat shields to check out the cable I gave in and tried new adjusters.

Also bear in mind many advise the hub nuts only be reused twice, I tried ignoring this and a hub nut came apart on me and they arent too cheap either.

 

[ScubaSteve]

try bending the copper plate that touches the teeth in to make the grip firmer

 

[Mustardmit]

Update:
Having cleaned up and lubricated the adjusters then bent the springs in as suggested by ScubaSteve, today I have mostly been removing drums and grinding off the lip that was making removal/re-fitting so troublesome.
I set each drum flat on a B&D Workmate and had at them with my angle grinder.
I was careful to keep the edge of the disc in line with the inside edge of the drums and I made a pretty good job of it without straying into the braking surface too much. I wouldn't recommend this technique unless you have a very steady hand and eye for accuracy, the drums would have been dealt with more precisely on some sort of lathe.
I unscrewed the adjusters (by hand) to 'bite point' and was still able to wobble the drums back on, then I took up the slack in the cable at the lever end (10mm nut).
RESULT ! ...H/B worked enough to hold the car on a steep hill for the first time since I've owned it. I attempted a couple of stops using the H/B but only the offside wheel locked up so I whipped the nearside wheel/drum off again and moved the adjuster a tad and now both wheels lock up nicely when H/B applied ! I checked (after a short drive with a few heavy brakings) that the small amount of friction had gone and it had.
SO hopefully, I now have a fully functioning parking brake that will satisfy the MOT tester and not overheat !
Thanks for all the help and advice folks

 

[Mustardmit]

"hopefully, I now have a fully functioning parking brake that will satisfy the MOT tester "
I do, and it did

 

[quest63]

Result :thumbs: