ICE install, complete work

[Wild E. Coyote]

Hi, some updates! After some serious listening I finally disconected rear twitters. They were just dragging soundstage behind me so they are now jobless
Much better now.
Also, today went to do the roof. It was the last piece of car cabine that wasn't acoustically treated. So, now I treated it.
Took of the roof lining. It is not a problem. You have to take down both sunvisors, the light, two hooks, the rubbers around doors and A and B pillars shrouds. You can do it without removing rear cards and without removing seats.
So, when I did it, I had this...

And this

[

Different angle

Cleaned it and degreased using solvent and started dynamatting it (using STP)

After 10-ish minutes it was like this

Then it was time for applying STP gold (the spounge)

And on the roof

Then about 15 minutes of work and everything was back as it was; no spares left :grin:

Took it for a spin around the block and can notice it is quieter. Even with windows partially open it is noticeably quieter; lower frequencies are reduced. I guess with speed the difference would be greater; the roof is now acoustically dead...

I would recommend this to everyone. And yes, I have put some weight on the car, but I used 4 sqm if STP and at 3 kg/sqm it was 12 kgs altogether. But for that is car much quieter and feels like bigger and much more expensive car (say a volvo...)

 

[ElDude at Allison Automotive]

What a cracking project...

Have been meaning to do my roof for years...so worth it you reckon?

:grin:

Chris

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

I took my puma just for a ahort spin around block. Even with windows open you can notice the difference. It is just more serene (if that is the right word to be used?). You just notice it right away and it took me altogether less then hour and a half to do it including dismantling the car and putting it all back together.
Remember that you don't have to take the seats out or nothing. It takes some wingling for the roof lining to come out (and even more to put it back :lol: ) but it is much less of a hassle then to do the doors, for instance.

If you are serious about the music in your car, I would recommend it strongly. The car just feels much more expensive, if you know what I am trying to say.

You'll need about three A3 sheets of dynamat, possibly even less. I used all I got left so put everything and almost covered whole roof. Altogehter I used 4 sqm on sound deadening including the boxes, doors, rear panels, cards and roof. And 2,5 sqm of spounge. Worth every penny, feels like a new, expensive new car. Whenever someone takes a ride they ask me how quiet the car is and is every puma/ford like that...? :lol:

Like I said, I was using Russian STP (http://www.stp-distribution.com/en/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false as it is cheap stuff, and on par with Dynamat but much less money. Recommended! I can see you have a sales representative in UK, try getting a quote from him?

 

[ElDude at Allison Automotive]

when removing the roof trim and lining..which bit do you recommend starting at?

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

I started with the rubber around door openings (start at bottom and go up to the roof via front; don't need undoing it all as it is covered by rear panel which will stay in place!). Then did the B pillar shrouds (you'll need undoing the safetybelt first) and A pillar as well (just pull, but be precise not to break the clips; there are three of them). After that took the roof light out (just pull and it will pop out) and then the sunvisors. After they were off the front was already starting to go down. Just needed undoing the hooks in the rear and taking the two clips out (they can't be broken, they are just friction type, no notches). After all that is done comes the fun part: rear parts of lining are still retained by the rear card trims. Found the easiest way of manouvirng was from rear, from the trunk; it helps if you pull up the rear rubber. Then some wiggling and it will fall down and then manouver it through the doors out.
As I said, this is a walk in the park comparing to the door cards.....

 

[Qwertben]

this guy sells it and hes uk based

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/bastus66b...h=item27d44fd8c6&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

So, as I promised a while ago, I am busy these days building A-pillar shrouds for the twitters. First I obtained a pair of A-pillar shrouds just in case if this attempt failed...
Then I had a listening session to see (i.e. hear) what was the best position for the twitters. I found that just about the best place is in the middle of shrouds and facing slightly to the front. The twitters are 'shooting' to the point in the middle of a windscreen, about ten cms below the rearview mirror.
The first thing was to fix the twitters in that position. I used screws.

Checking that the wiring would pass through everything. Also, tempted to leave it like this..!

Since the will to do it right prevailed, I continued putting the outer rings. They were meant for the flush instalation in dashboard, but I cut them to be able to put them over existing cups

Since it was movable, secured it with some glue

Now, the fun starts! My wife donated a pair of nylons (she didn't even know she did at the time ) that were streched over to make a smoth transition

To get correct shape at the bottom had to tie it a bit

Then applied the first coat of epoxy resin

And second after the first cured (at least some good of 40C we expirienced)

My lab...

Then applied the third coat of resin and put some fiberglass over it for additional strenght

After the resin hardened, I cut the surplus cloth and trimmed it a bit

Time for some gelcoat

Also gave a few coats

After it hardened properly, I sanded it down a bit to shape it more and to get a nice flow and better surface. I know it is not perfect, but since I am trimming it in alcantara, it doesn't matter really. If I were to spray it, the surface would have to be perfect

Twitters ready for the final trial fit

And fitted!

]

Tommorrow will visit Mr WR to trim this shrouds. That should line up nicely with the top of twitters. I plan on using either alcantara or some similar material. If everything goes according to the plans, you'll see it tommorrow finished!

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

I visited Mr WR and here is what he did. I put on original alcantara...

Twitters in place...

And finally, the A-pillar trimcards in place....

A closer view..

And the other side..

I think the trimcards blended in with roof just fine..?

And the VIN plate now comes into play big time, unobstructed in any way...

I would have taken a photo showing the car interior and both trimcards at the same time, but unfortunately my lens is not wide enough! Sorry for that, when I organise a friend who is a pro to take some pictures, I'll post them here.

Also would like to stress that now the stereo image is much wider, there is much more air around music, the picture is brighter (but not to bright). I guess this is the optimal place for the twitters in puma cabin

As that projest is now over I think I'll do the internal boot release switch first.....

PS. Must say I like the alcantara so much that in foreseeable future I might retrim the recaros in alcantara +leather.... :wink: :?:

 

[Glenn_]

Looks well cool.I love my tunes in my car.

Can I ask how you got the amp wire from the battery to inside the car.

 

[Dal]

Best place is to push a coat hanger or similar through the gromet in the top right of the engine bay.. This feeds down behind the glovebox:

 

[JiiHu]

Very nice job! Thanks for the roof tutorial, I should also put some STP to my Puma's roof, it rattles annoyingly with the subwoofer.

Did you test how tweeters sounded in that same place, but so that they would be towards listeners, not the wind screen? One could think that they could sound even better when they are towards listeners

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

I opted for this direction because it was not so bright and hence better in long run. Stereoimage is just about the same, you don't lose any clarity, if that was your concern. This was just down to my personal preference. I had extensive listening session using only JM Lab and Focal test CD's and a friend of mine and me together came to this solution being the optimum one

 

[JiiHu]

Well then I believe that it sounds better that way

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

I guess it also depends a lot on speakers, HU and amp you are using. DLS are not the brightest of twitters around (like, say Infinity, Rockford fosgate, or JBL) and it works like this. If they were infinity (well, they woudln't be in my car) probably it would be way to bright and sparkly with lots of sibilants and annoying ts-ts-ts-ts-ts….
Certain old school clarion HU's are silky smooth in sound character, alpine after a while also isn't bad either, though it is a tad brighter

My advice would be to put everything in car, let it sink in for a two or three months and only THEN organise a listening session and hold the twitters by hand and listen to them. After half an hour or so you will have your optimum position.

Just use good quality CDs (good quality in regard to the quality of recording), that is condition sine qua non!

 

[JiiHu]

Wow, you seem to know a lot about speakers Would you happen to know any good CD's which I could use to test the system? I know some songs, like 'Phil Collins - Another Day in the Paradise', 'Nils Lofgren - Keith Don't Go' or 'Wildlife - Hotel California', but it is good to have more variety.

In fact I should find better position for my tweeters which are on door's sail panels. Stereoimage could be a lot better than what it is now.

Btw, did you make closed enclosure for the 6.5" in the front? I didn't quite undestand from the text

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

Wow, you seem to know a lot about speakers Would you happen to know any good CD's which I could use to test the system? I know some songs, like 'Phil Collins - Another Day in the Paradise', 'Nils Lofgren - Keith Don't Go' or 'Wildlife - Hotel California', but it is good to have more variety.

I am affraid that mass produced CDs aren't a (very) good benchmark recordings.
I would try going into some GOOD HiFi shop that retails JM-Lab (Focal) speakers and ask for their DEMO test CD. On it you will find about 3-4 music tracks, and about dozen or so tracks aimed at various parts of your system (stereoimage, depth of stage, bass, midbass, phase in/out etc.)
And then just listen! Your ears are the best instrument there is!

In fact I should find better position for my tweeters which are on door's sail panels. Stereoimage could be a lot better than what it is now.

Yes, that is why I did the A-pillar panels. You have lots of reflections from dashboard and the stereo image is blurry and not very wide

Btw, did you make closed enclosure for the 6.5" in the front? I didn't quite undestand from the text

No, I just closed the existing space in doors. When you open it and take a look, you will know what I am talking about. Though, having said that, I am toying with idea of opening a hole to enable deeper bass from door speakers…. Might just do that; the problem is if your doorcards aren't treated properly, they would rattle… I think mine are OK, but just couldn't be bothered with dismantling the doors again...

 

[JiiHu]

I am affraid that mass produced CDs aren't a (very) good benchmark recordings.
I would try going into some GOOD HiFi shop that retails JM-Lab (Focal) speakers and ask for their DEMO test CD. On it you will find about 3-4 music tracks, and about dozen or so tracks aimed at various parts of your system (stereoimage, depth of stage, bass, midbass, phase in/out etc.)
And then just listen! Your ears are the best instrument there is!

I'll try to find good one from somewhere

Yes, that is why I did the A-pillar panels. You have lots of reflections from dashboard and the stereo image is blurry and not very wide

Unfortunately I don't have the time and space to make a proper A-pillar installation. I was thinking that I'd just adjust the tweeters on sail panels, which I think will make a little improvement on stereoimage. But maybe I could just screw tweeters to A-pillars like in one of your pics:

No, I just closed the existing space in doors. When you open it and take a look, you will know what I am talking about. Though, having said that, I am toying with idea of opening a hole to enable deeper bass from door speakers…. Might just do that; the problem is if your doorcards aren't treated properly, they would rattle… I think mine are OK, but just couldn't be bothered with opening the doors again...

You closed the big holes which were in the door or just the ones behind the speaker? I closed couple holes which were on the door, not behind the speakers, by glueing aluminium to the holes with proper "glue" and then put some STP over the aluminium, but it didn't make big difference. I was thinking that in the spring I'd glue all the holes if that would help.

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

Unfortunately I don't have the time and space to make A-pillar installation. I was thinking that I'd just adjust the tweeters on sail panels, which I think will make a little improvement on stereoimage.

A little. but not by much. They are simply to low! Twitters should, ideally, be in line with your ears

You closed the big holes which were in the door or just the ones behind the speaker? I closed couple holes which were on the door, not behind the speakers, by glueing aluminium to the holes with proper "glue" and then put some STP over the aluminium, but it didn't make big difference. I was thinking that in the spring I'd glue all the holes if that would help.

I sealed it completely, effectively making it a compression box. What speakers are you using? HU? Amplifier?

 

[JiiHu]

A little. but not by much. They are simply to low! Twitters should, ideally, be in line with your ears

That is true. Btw I just had an idea and edited the previous post before you posted your reply

I sealed it completely, effectively making it a compression box. What speakers are you using? HU? Amplifier?

I'm sorry, but I didn't get that did you seal all the holes in doors or just behind the speakers?

I'm using Rainbow SL-C6.2 6.5" speakers, JBl 2x60w amplifier and Alpine headunit. Pics and other info can be found from my project thread.

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

Sorry, just behind speakers. I was worried I might need access to the window mechanism or something and didn't seal it completely.

Amp is driving the subwoofer, I presume? I would try to find a 4 channel amp and drive front speakers as well with it. It would be a massive improvement. I haven't had any expirience with rainbow speakers, but they seem a proper peace of kit!

Got to go now! Hockey night tonight! (our team plays KHL, same as your Jokerit will next year... :wink: )
If only one of Koivu's would play for us, or Grundlund….. :roll: