Puma for road/stage rally

[ScubaSteve]

http://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/CaliperList.aspx?subname=Billet%20Superlite%206%20Lug%20Mount" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

what are you basing the frp brakes not being much better on? just piston area?

 

[dtq]

http://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/CaliperList.aspx?subname=Billet%20Superlite%206%20Lug%20Mount

what are you basing the frp brakes not being much better on? just piston area?

No the calculator once the pistons are entered correctly takes in account piston area, disc diameter and pad size (at least the effective crosssection of it) Roughly speaking it just gives you how much braking torque you get from the specs you give it. Ive kept friction coefficients and mastercylinder and pedal stats the same to see what difference to braking force just the calipers, discs and pad design make. Obviously race linings are available for any of the calipers so just want to compare the setups themselves with all else being "equal"...

are you running 300mm discs with those?

based on that assumption Im getting a figure of 3852 lbs from that which would rate at 139% of standard, of course thats just based on braking force, without taking into account the most likelly far better pad material or the design benefits of multi piston brakes. Allowing for a .55 friction rated pad that goes straight up to 5297lb! which is 192% and about 40% better than mondeo mk 3 setup on "road pads". Thats without taking into account the inherent benefits of multi piston calipers over single pistons calipers even with piston area and all other things being equal!

4 or 6 pots WILL always feel better than a single pot of the same braking force...

 

[crutts]

The mondeo set-up looks good to me, just for the pure cost and the ease of getting parts.

 

[dtq]

The mondeo set-up looks good to me, just for the pure cost and the ease of getting parts.

Just remember the mk1 \ mk2 calipers are slightly different, they are the same spec and do the same job but take different pads! make sure you know which you are getting to get matching pads - they are not interchangeable.

also if you are going for the 3mm spacer behind the disc variant to make things fit, make sure the space you buy will fit behind the "bell" of the disc :lol:. Personally Im going to rework either the caliper or the knuckle a bit to take the meat off there instead to make sure everything fits nicely.

 

[crutts]

When you say about the spacer, is that just an option or do I have to do it to get the Mondeo stuff to work? Any pics of your set up?

Joe

 

[dtq]

When you say about the spacer, is that just an option or do I have to do it to get the Mondeo stuff to work? Any pics of your set up?

Joe

Basically you have to get the disc to sit 3mm further away from the caliper body than it does as standard with the puma knuckle, this can be done in several ways, you can put a 3mm thick spacer between the hub and the disc, or you can take of 3mm of metal from the caliper mounting lugs on the hub or from the mounting area of the caliper. other wise things come into contact that shouldnt . You may well also need to put some sturdy washers between the caliper bolts and the calipers, as often the stock mondeo caliper bolts at a bit too long.

 

[crutts]

Ah yeah that was what I thought.

 

[dtq]

Took a picture of a setup off the car, so you can see where the alignment issue is.

Basically with those raised flat areas around the bolt holes on the caliper its too thick to fit between the mounting plate and the disc and the caliper will rub on the disc. You can grind back the disc side of the caliper mounts on the hub to give it breathing space, or you can take the extra meat out of the caliper or you can move the disc a little with spacers. Personally Im not inclined to mess up my refurbed calipers, and besides I think it will be easier to get the lugs on the hub perfectly flat than the refacing the mounting area on the caliper, so I will be getting a little taken out of the hubs at the same time as Im doing the machining for the wide track setup.

It is however just as easy to do the job with a spacer behind the disc

 

[crutts]

Cheers. Did you buy the spacers or did you make them?

 

[dtq]

Cheers. Did you buy the spacers or did you make them?

Im not going to be using spacers, Im going to be machining the hubs instead. I did buy some cheap spacers for about £5 on ebay, but they turned out to be too big to fit behind the drum. I could cut them down, but I think as Ive got the bits off the car and getting machining done anyway I might as well adapt the hub...

 

[crutts]

Ah sorry, thought had already fitted them.

I may just 'machine' them.

 

[dtq]

Ah sorry, thought had already fitted them.

I may just 'machine' them.

Im pretty sure I read a thread where a guy did the work with a grinder without any problems.

I will get the guy whos doing the rest of the work on the hub to do it on one of his machines to make sure everything is perfectly flat and level.

 

[crutts]

Yeah thats what I was thinking, or could it on a machine at uni.

 

[crutts]

Well I have bought me a 1.4 2000 Puma, £420! Couldnt argue with that at all!! Will be a long process for me as being at uni again this year will quickly deplete the amount I have to spend on it. Luckily I have access to alot of machines and skills at uni so should get some things done for realtively cheap.

 

[dtq]

Well I have bought me a 1.4 2000 Puma, £420! Couldnt argue with that at all!! Will be a long process for me as being at uni again this year will quickly deplete the amount I have to spend on it. Luckily I have access to alot of machines and skills at uni so should get some things done for realtively cheap.

Thats great news. sounds like you should be able to twist a few arms to get things done cheap then

 

[greadon]

This is my first post on the forum so hello all!!

I have recently aquired a Puma (1.7) and I am currently preparing it for road rallying with my brother in-law. We managed to pick the car up as an MOT failure, just needed two new headlights and a bit of attention on the emissions which isn't really a major problem on a rally car!

We don't intend on spending a lot of money on it, just want it to handle so that we can have some fun. We have managed to fit a half roll cage from my old Mazda 323 with a bit of cutting, grinding and welding, got some bucket seats and spot lights, just need sump guard and mud-flaps and we are ready to go, oh and a £5 scorpion back-box needs to be fitted too (hope it's not too loud! :? )

I was wondering what others have done with things such as the traction control / torque limiter? Have you left it as it is, upgraded box or fabricated a switch on gear linkage like some others? I noticed that DTQ said that he is using Eibach springs with standard dampers... can you get Eibach springs which do not lower the car? and any suggestions on the best place to get springs?

Finally.... does anyone know if the Fiesta ST calipers fit under a 14" wheel, and am I right in assuming they bolt straight on?

Thanks in advance.

 

[massivewangers]

Not much help from me on the other questions, but I think you might struggle fitting the ST brakes under 14" wheels. I believe they're 280mm roughly, so you might well need 15s, unless you had a motorsport type alloy perhaps!

 

[crutts]

I havent managed to do much to my Puma due to being busy with other rallying commiments.

Where does everyone get their sumpguards from? And where do they fit them?

I have found a friendly local breakers that I will be visiting frequently just to find bits off Mondeos etc. so brakes should be sorted soon.

As for Eibachs, try Peter Lloyd or demon tweeks.