Stage Car Project

[Gaverick]

Tonight we rewired the wideband with our new, good (as in it actually gets hot) soldering iron. After recalibration and some faffing with the TPS it idled smoothly at 14.7 AFR and sounded better on revs than ever before. We need to rewire and attach the TPS as we think there is some dodgy wiring which caused our exceptionally lean AFR readings previously.

Here are some pics of the wideband setup as requested.

The sensor wire coming through the floor (this needs a grommet still and a proper strap box to secure the LC-1) going in to the LC-1 unit.

Where the LC-1 wiring taps in to the cars loom through our plate with grommets. As you can see the brake booster needs some serious painting which we will be doing shortly.

 

[yippeekiay]

Cheers, looking good. Luckily my wideband is an all in one in that the LC1 controller is in the gage itself so it's a simpler setup but seeing your wiring route has given me more ideas.

Where exactly did you weld the threaded sensor boss/bung to the exhaust?

Cheers

 

[phil185]

It uses the boss from the original so it was a straight swap, no welding needed. We have a milltek system so im not sure if the boss is in the same place as your's.

We did look at getting one with the guage but one of our friends had this from his supercharged swift sport project and said we could have it cheap, despite it being unused, so we snapped it up. Also we will have other gauges for things like oil pressure etc so i dont think we will have room for more. We are going to use it more for diagnostic's and mapping so just having the connector to plug the laptop in when needed is ideal.

Any more questions just ask!

 

[Gaverick]

We put the seats back in last night and did some tidying up in the garage. With only having a small garage we have to make the best possible use of the space available, meaning a lot of vertical storage.

We are after a new clutch master cylinder as we noticed that ours is leaking, if any one can help out drop me a PM.

 

[Gaverick]

Hi guys, just a quick update on how we're getting on, we haven't forgotten about it!

The last few months have been spent saving for and ordering a safety devices roll cage, we are currently awaiting delivery which shouldn't be long now. The estimated lead time was 6-8 Weeks and we are at about 8 Weeks now.

In the mean time we have been doing some inexpensive jobs to keep us busy. Fitting chequer plate to the footwells, putting the dash dash in, working on mounting the sump guard and blanking a few holes left from removing things.

I'll be sure to update when the cage arrives, we are also working on a return of the front suspension and locating the battery to the boot.

 

[ScubaSteve]

please please dont put the battery in the boot its such a common school boy error, its the worst place to have the weight, over or further then the rear wheels. Rules of inertia dictate it will have a negative effect on the grip at the rear

best place is behind a seat, nice and low and neutral weight point

 

[Gaverick]

The problem we have is that there will be fire extinguishers behind the seats and we have no weight in the back at all at the moment which means we will really struggle to get any heat in the tyres at the back. There will also be a spare wheel and tyre in the back so the weight of a lightweight racing battery is relatively nothing in comparison.

 

[ScubaSteve]

I can appreciate that the battery alone wont make a great deal of difference, but you might aswell put it where the OEM battery goes under the bonnet rather then at the rear, think about when a trailer thats too heavy gets towed, or a caravan and a slight movement sets it off on a tank slap, extreme example but the principle is the same, the general theory is that potentially a lighter rear end is more prone to lift off oversteer, but because its so light its generally easier to readjust and get it back in line, with more weight the chance of it becoming uncontrollable is greater, and yes the battery is light but when you add it all up with the spare wheel etc, it all starts adding up into a weighty lump over and further then your rear axle that multiplies in "weight" when g forces are implied on it.

bear in mind a weight of 50kgs becomes 100kgs with a 2 x g force implied on it

but keep the updates coming, great project :thumbs:

 

[madhillbilly17]

just out of curiosity how does it work with a rear engine car with weight? i thought my elise and 911 handled well,i know there rwd but i wouldnt have thought you would notice a battery in the boot in a front wheel drive car.

 

[PumaNoob]

That is my thoughts exactly, as long as the battery is in front of the rear wheels, then like the engine in mid engined cars, as long as suspension is set up right, i think it can actually have a positive effect on handling. Some cars come with the battery in the boot as standard. If you could house the battery into the boot floor, the lower the weight, the better, but especially that light weight battery, I don't think you'll notice any difference, and if you get it corner weighted, I think it can help with the balance. It's a highly debated topic, but some of the fastest and best handling cars in the world have a whole engine sat exactly where you are planning to put the battery. Then on the opposite end of the spectrum, people are putting heavy iron block engines in the front of light weight stripped out cars, & still getting good results, it will change handling, but you learn to drive that setup. The weight of a caravan, and the distance that weight is over the rear wheels is a bit of an extreme comparison, the effects are nowhere near the same. That's like comparing putting a small spoiler on the back of your car, to putting the wing of a Boeng 747 wing on it, the effects are the same, but over exaggerated 1000 times, and that comparison could be done with anything on a car, wheel size, track, weight, anything!

 

[PumaJay]

it does seem and over debated subject, the weight of s battery isnt going to dictate the handling of the car, im planning on putting my battery behind the passenger seat, as steve has done, but that was more for keeping it hidden and for neatness as apposed to handling and balance.

like you say once corner weighted and setup correctly, boot or behind the seat... it doesnt really matter in the grand scheme of things.

 

[ScubaSteve]

rwd is a totally different kettle of fish, there you are looking to keep weight over the driven wheels, as said some road cars have batterys in the boot, bmw m3 being one and you can hardly say thats a bad handling car lol

I think the point is more there are a million (exageration) better places to put it then the boot, which will have a negative effect no matter how small so why not just use one of those other spots, i take the point there are fire extinguishers already in the ideal spot, so imo best to just mount it back in the engine bay

Also saying the battery is that light its not going to have an impact, disagree, again i refer to my point that at 2g a 50kg weight becomes a 100kg one, if a battery weighs 10kg that could become a 20kg weight swinging around at the outter most point of the vehicle, and its not just that, its having a bunch of things all adding up, iv seen people mount fuel tanks in the boot, why??? the standard place mid car underbody position is absolutely perfect for weight and height.

I do despair at the things people do just for the sake of earning internet points (thats not directed at anyone in this thread btw)

Could say why bother removing my rear seats, they only weigh 10kgs, why remove the roof lining it only weighs a kg or 2, its all about the difference it makes added up and when on track and the car is hanging on to within an inch of its limits these changes can make a big difference to whether or not your car fancies a trip infield

 

[PumaNoob]

I totally agree about removing things, they all add up, but your point about the battery i dont think its the difference between a good or a bad handling car. My battery is in my boot, but its right up against the rear seat, and is still infront of the rear wheel centre line. Your point about the weight multiplying still means that on the passenger side of the car, the battery weight still wont reach the weight of the driver on the drivers side. So the weight would be more equally distributed. The more front biased the weight is, the more likely to oversteer, and with a stripped out car with no weight in the back, a bit more weight in the back can help.

Im not saying that under the passenger seat isnt a better location, im just saying that the difference between putting it just behind the passenger seat, and just behind the rear seat, isnt going to change anything all that much. If there were 100 things that you wanted to put in the boot, then yes, its going to make a lot of difference, but its not. Its like what youve done stripping out your car, all of it adds up, but if you were to just take out the lower bench seat (not the back part), and take it on a track, it wouldnt make a noticable difference. If you wanted to put the battery on the roof, then other then looking a pillock, it would throw things out a bit more. Ive driven a small track with the rear seats taken out in my green puma, then driven the same track with a large socket set and jack in the boot, and not noticed any difference.

There would have been a difference no doubt, but unless its quite significant, im not going to notice it.

And accelerating out of corners ect, then rear wheel drive is a different kettle of fish, but braking into corners, weight distribution on any car works the same, because the engine isnt doing anything at that point, its just dead weight. Most of the weight has been transferred to the front wheels, so with the theory that the weight multiplies with G, how much would a 500kg engine weigh at 2g with a mid engined car?

 

[Gaverick]

After speaking to Phil today while marshalling at a rally it seems I got the wrong end of the stick and the battery is going behind the drivers seat with one extinguisher behind the passenger and the other extinguisher in the footwell. In the boot will be the spare wheel, jack and tools should we get a puncture on stage.

So we can't totally eliminate all weight from the rear, and obviously in the majority of situations you want to position the weight low down and in a neutral position, but you also have to remember on a rally car the car needs to fly as level as possible over jumps, and on loose surfaces the momentum of the rear can be used to go quicker (i.e Scandinavian flick).

Thanks for the comments though every one, nice to see some interest in the car.

 

[ScubaSteve]

:thumbs:

 

[Gaverick]

Oh I forgot to mention the seats we currently have in the car will be going as we need FIA approved seats mounted with proper sidemounts, but as the seats are lifed they will be one of the last things to go in along with harnesses as those are also lifed.

 

[PumaNoob]

I might be missing a trick here, but on my buckets, the FIA certificate is just stamped on, whats to stop anyone just putting their own stamp on it?? Not that id condone those sort of antics!! I like the sump guard youve made, im looking to make something similar, not for a sump guard, but to decrease turbulence under the car.

 

[ScubaSteve]

mines got like a velcro patch type thing with the fia cert

 

[PumaNoob]

So could you just not peel it off and put another one on??

 

[Gaverick]

From what I've read the future of seats will be computer chips in the seats which store age, number of events done, etc. I think all British seat manufacturers are currently putting these chips in their new seats in order to future proof their seats.