to wing or not to wing...that is the question and which one

[paulob1]

okay am thinking about real improvement in cornering ...

a diffuser and good wing will add g to its ability to turn, anyone know of a diffuser that is available for the puma, am also thinking of fitting side skirts, only for when on track days but anyone had any experience of all this...I would like to fit or make a variable geometry wing. perhaps one that links to the steering wheel...more turn more wing, just a thought...

 

[XIIVVX]

The only improvement a wing will make to your cornering ability is that the car will not be as fast at the top end and so will be at a better (lower) speed when it arrives at fast sweeping bends.

Think about it. The car understeers, when it runs out of grip the front lets go first. So why will more grip on the rear, undriven wheels help? Answer - It won't.

On Puma running road-going suspension (inc FRP) The only purpose of a rear spoiler is cosmetic. If you like the look, buy one. It'll make the car slower and use more fuel, but you may consider it worthwhile. I wouldn't.

 

[paulob1]

good points, not totally correct but goods points all the same...

 

[eddy]

hey buddy i hav a f2 spoiler on my FRP yes it does slow it down alot on top end and uses alot of fuel but help with cornering alot. if u know how to drive u can correct the under steer.........i find that my FRP handles really well and i hav so much confidence in it...... i havnt yet had anyone stay with me round a corner

 

[paulob1]

ah yes the F2 is a nice wing, thats good input, fuel consumption isnt of concern to me at all...if its causing drag I am likely to be getting down force, thats good. I am tuning both my frp's, one is going nitrous,aiming for 50 bhp so around 200 bhp plus... and the other one turbo, this will be easily 200, possibly 220. So I am not worried about the drag or the top speed, as long as I can hit the ton in short order I am more than happy, anything above that is asking for trouble anyway...

I would really like to get under 10 seconds to 100, not sure if its possible but we will see...

 

[yippeekiay]

I'd say a 100 in under 10 seconds is a tad optimistic on those power figures but if that's your goal then go for it.

I'm thinking a serious amount of stripping down to achieve 'roughly' 250bhp per ton may get you somewhere near that target!!!

Also depends on gearing which could be a way to tweak the acceleration in your favour.

 

[paulob1]

yes I think your right but I have been looking into power figures and it seems about 250 bhp is the target...the exige is the bench mark, about a ton all in, and 230 bhp actual, dry weight 930 but likely this means about 1 ton, so I am assuming a puma with maybe 1 ton and 220 will be damn close, and I can always say 10.9 is close to under 10 seconds...I am assuming my car will be around 1 ton, so 220 will not be bad...of course with the turbo and the nitrous cars I could easily up the boost and the nitrous for the odd run and see where they go.

if I eventually give it a real go and build a track day car, it all depends upon how these toys perform then I would try to get the car around 900 kg, tough with a roll cage, unless I strip the lot out and make it totally track orientated, possible but not yet the plan..I have a shell and once that arrives I may just build it into a track day car...minimal gear and maybe an st220 engine with a bit of boost...wider track than standard frp, will build arm and drive shaft extensions, with arch extensions, independant suspension on the rear, and just maybe an 1800 duratec engine...sequential box...hmm...is it worth the effort is my current thought. i could buy a 4 x4 cossie tuned to 550 bhp and have a lot of fun for much less money...my mind is currently open, it would be fun to have one of the 4x4 pumas from division 1 rally 525 bhp and 4x4 lowerd to an within an inch of its life, Side skirts and front splitter, a big rear wing and additional front air aids and i think it would be a rather fun track day car isf a little lairy...
mind you at 50k euros a lot of money too...better than a GTR? hmm I wonder...

 

[yippeekiay]

Me too........

If you enjoy the challenge and getting your hands dirty and more importantly believe you can achieve your end goal without then thinking it was a waste of money then I'd go for the one off Puma. However, if you just want that power/handling etc now and have the available funds at hand now then I'd go for the already built option, in this case the GT-R. Taking the latter option would also give you a better return for your money when you come to sell it on as you will have more prospective purchasers than you would a one off singly orientated Puma.

You can phone a friend on this decision....lol. k:

 

[paulob1]

yes but i now have a shell, and most of the bits to build an interesting car so likely i will just go ahead and build something not so flash but a useful little track day tool...

 

[paulob1]

just read some very interesting statistics....

trhe lotus esprit

0-60 4.3
0-100 10 seconds
1/4 mile 12.8 seconds...it only weighs 1370 kg

FRP

0-60 7.8
0-100 22 seconds
1/4 mile 15.8

only 3 seconds behind, i know its a long time relatively but it makes me hold out some hope...

Maybe I should strip down the esprit and get that to around 1000 kg and then have a track car that would have 350 bhp per ton instead of 254. lose the aircon the electric windows the carpets every usless item i could find and it may be possible...interesting stuff this...am really getting into the numbers....

 

[warrenpenalver]

the F2 spoiler only works properly with the matching S1600 front splitter. It was designed as a package for tarmac rallying and as such you need both for it to work properly.

F2 spoiler alone will cause more understeer. Hence you need the splitter to balance it out.

 

[paulob1]

understeer, guaranteed is better than uncertain rear or front end break, if you drive the cars as i do sometimes I am a little concerned that the back will break on me when I least expect it, so predictable understeer because the rear is glued to the deck is not going to be a bad thing...agree though ideally I want to get both ends down...

I have moved the batteries to the rear and am going to drop them lower in the boot by cutting a proper battery box in the rear...this will hold the front a bit better and reduce break out, of course what I also have is a lighter front end which means acceleration will be affected on the limit as more of the weight is at the back....but whilst I like the 0-60 fun stuff, i like bends more...

Whats nice about the puma is that my driving skills are not taxed by the cars abilities. I will never be a race driver nor a very fast driver i just like the odd blast now and again and these cars are such damn fun I want to see if I can make them a bit more fun for me...

 

[warrenpenalver]

TBH you have to be a bit of a idiot to get the back end out of control on a normal puma, as they are so controllable even when tweaked. A moderate to good driver can hand the back end out with lift off oversteer dead easily and its very controllable.

FRP is slightly more snappy when the back end goes but thats because youve already got much more grip and hence more speed when you break traction. still controllable if you know the cars limits though.

 

[XIIVVX]

understeer, guaranteed is better than uncertain rear or front end break

And a zillion times worse than predictable oversteer

 

[paulob1]

not certain its a zillion times worse but I would certainly prefer rear end break than front, as that is what I am used to, but not sure that is a set up option that I can guarantee right now or if at all...any suggestion welcome...but one of my silly'er thoughts was to fit side skirts, a front rubber air damn and make the think suck itself onto the floor...lowering the suspension on the FRP may help a tad too I guess for track use but not really that practical i would think on road...

 

[paulob1]

TBH you have to be a bit of a idiot to get the back end out of control on a normal puma, as they are so controllable even when tweaked. A moderate to good driver can hand the back end out with lift off oversteer dead easily and its very controllable.

FRP is slightly more snappy when the back end goes but thats because youve already got much more grip and hence more speed when you break traction. still controllable if you know the cars limits though.

ooh bugger I must be that idiot... in the wet I have had her well sideways....not totally out of control but wasnt that much in control either...

hit the bend hard in the early corner, blip the throttle evenly the front cuts in and the back pops out, it is easily controlled until the front really goes.....I tend to do this on a few select fast roundabouts where i know I have a bit of space. But its more for silly fun than anything else...

 

[XIIVVX]

.any suggestion welcome

1) Do not fit a rear wing

2) I ran with the rear tyres at 40psi. That helped some

3) I am afraid for consistency you will have to assist it with a little coarse steering. It's sad, but until you convert it to RWD I can't see much alternative.

 

[paulob1]

hmm may as well buy one that is already done for rear wheel,,,interesting topic this though..

 

[warrenpenalver]

getting it well sideways and being out of control are too different things. And TBH in the wet you have too little traction for any aero to make any significant contribution.

once you know the car well you can put it where you want with practice. In the navy i used to slide it with lift off oversteer into my named parking space everyday and with practice i got it between the white lines every time. Its all about knowing the limits of the car.

 

[paulob1]

yes I will play a bit more with it, playing in the wet is good as you can do it at lower speeds but mostly the effects are the same as at higher speeds in the dry, so will have a good play once the wet weather is here...but my skills are pretty basic really....