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looking good,have the bonnet vent been filled in? if the turbo turned out to be from a saab aero im sure they all have garrett T25s which is the same as mine,i brought a spare a few weeks back and that came off a saab aero, do you know if your clutch is std? how is it coping with the extra power? i need to change mine soon was unsure if it just needed changing anyway or doesnt like boost.
 
well i have no idea at the moment but it is coping, i will be taking thebox out as I said and fitting another possibly and frp box, possibly just an lsd...it will get a 200 plus clutch then, although I think the st one is just the same but stronger...

its definitely from a saab so it is likely to be the t25..I will work it all out just need a bit of play time first...son keeps pinching it..

current issues are it is very snatchy on and off the throttle.
brakes need the rotors either dressing and centering or new ones.
Suspension feels tired.
sound system pretty basic...

next one is the frp, thats getting the same rig, same t25 but i definiteyl want to get it to 15psi but not sure the t25 can manage this...will see, may need a hybrid rotor fitted, talking to a turbo man who has the info...trying to learn myself but not a lot of time to do that...
 
Oh, it was you that brought that car then!! I saw that a few years ago, but the guy wanted a lot more for it then!! If you can afford to blow the engine, and dont mind using it for test purposes, then i think its great that you can push the puma engine to its limits, its a very strong engine. With regards to wheels, i know its entirely your decision, but putting 18" wheels on will put a lot more stress on the engine, and reduce acceleration a lot. I would put money on it that if you put 18" wheels on, you will struggle to find a clutch that will last, and your 0-60 time will suffer dramatically. If you use an FRP box, that will help, as the shorter ratio will put less stress on the clutch, but smaller outside circumference wheels/tyres will put less stress on brakes, engine, gearbox, and clutch, so its just something id take into consideration before you choose your wheels and tyres!

As said above, the Van Aaken kit was made for 5psi, but i know your engine has been running a fair bit more then that and its still going, so who knows what is can take. Id have put money on that engine not lasting more then 2000 miles before blowing up if you would have asked me when it was done. No ignition retard, no intercooler, no extra fuel on boost, and high compression, its got all the right ingredients for a disaster, and id immagine thats the same opinion youd get from most if not all tuners, but that car seems to defy the odds. But i certainly wouldnt put money on it lasting much longer!
 
it is being hammered, and we will break it but then we will rebuild it and break it again...i want to see where we can go with this engine and what breaks, they are so cheap nowadays its easier to mgo this way than strip and develop. I personally think she will take 300 and maybe 350.

I have a spare frp box. I will likely use a megasquirt on it in the not too distant future and will start learning what is going on...it will be getting an intercooler and as to high compression I have no idea, what I do know is she pulls very very well indeed and reaches peak around 4600rpm...then just keeps pulling like a powerful engine...clutch is not showing any slip yet but we will see...once i have rebuilt nitrous puma and fitted the lsd i will then rebuiild this one, fit decompression plate, megasquirt, and start upping the boost to 15psi....assuming the t25 can give it...we will see where we get then. I cannot imagine with 15 psi i wont be getting less than 250 bhp but I may be wrong, its just a guestimate for now. Am thinking of getting myself a dyno rig to do my own proper tuning, just need to get hold of a good mechanic, i know who i want but its a not happening just yet. Me and my main man will keep tinkering for now...

She is not as fast to 90 as my 25bhp jet nitrous frp...once I have this sorted all my cars are going turbo...and the track day car is going to get a big load of boost...25 psi here we come...woo hoo...
 
pum noob thanks for that, my thought process was that with 250 maybe 300 bhp on tap I will be spinning my wheels. My biggest worry was wheel bearing and suspension unit failure...get your point about the effort but the bigger wheels will only conpensate for taller gearing and fitting a heavier clutch has to be a major issue anyway...

I would have thought bigger wheels, bigger brakes better stopping. Give me more of your thoughts on this...
 
paulob1 said:
pum noob thanks for that, my thought process was that with 250 maybe 300 bhp on tap I will be spinning my wheels. My biggest worry was wheel bearing and suspension unit failure...get your point about the effort but the bigger wheels will only conpensate for taller gearing and fitting a heavier clutch has to be a major issue anyway...

I would have thought bigger wheels, bigger brakes better stopping. Give me more of your thoughts on this...

Wheel bearings wont be affected by power, they will only be affected by wheel size, camber, and how you drive the car, so i wouldnt really worry about that. The same goes for the suspension, it will only be affected by adding weight to the car, widening the track significantly, and how you drive the car, so if you get a good set of suspension, it wont be under any extra stress then a car with less power.

With regards to wheel size, shorter gearing will help with the slower acceleration, and clutch slipping, but not with stress on thgearbox and driveshafts. regardless of gearing, a smaller circumference wheel on the same engine set up will always be less stress on the driveshafts, clutch, and engine, and acceleration will be quicker, providing you can put the power down! Im pretty confident that if you produce more then 200ftlbs, a standard 1.7 or even FRP box wont cope for long if you are going to drive it hard, although i really hope you prove me wrong!! An FRP box only has shot peened 1st and 2nd, the rest of the box is exactly the same, other then shorter gearing. The bearings are the same, and the strength of the parts are the same. This is one of the reasons ive not gone any further with my 1.7 turbo, because buying uprated gearbox internals just seemed very expensive for where i was going with that car. I also think if you are going to be looking for 250 upwards, depending on torque, you might need a very expensive twin plate clutch, i struggled to find a clutch that would take my power, and thats without an LSD and with very small wheels! With 17" or 18" wheels, and an LSD, you will be putting a hell of a lot more stress on the clutch.

I agree totally with the bigger brakes though, the bigger the brakes, the better, depending on pad compounds and disc material ect, but like for like, bigger is better. The only issue i have come across with bigger brakes is disc weight, but you can overcome that with lighter rotors and alloy bells.

There are a few different sized housings for a T25, but the average T25 wouldnt sustain 15psi up to redline on your engine, but it depends on cam lift and timing too. If you have very low duration cams, and low lift, you would sustain 15psi, but thats not a good thing. You shoouldnt really look at boost as a power indicator, i know its the easiest way to express boost, but psi is just restriction! You can have 2 engines both running 10psi of boost, but one has 100bhp, and the other has 200bhp. The more efficient an engine is, the less the boost will sustain from an identical turbo. Boost is only gas that the head is unable to flow. If you are using a journal bearing turbo, then the average T25 will struggle to make any more then 250bhp on your engine. The turbo can not flow the required gas that needs to go through your engine to make that power. There are of course exceptions. A ball bearing turbo will easily flow enough, but you'd need to make sure you had the supporting mods. Once a turbo goes past its efficiency range, it will blow hot air, and the faster the velocity of the air, the less efficient an intercooler becomes! So you can actually loose power if you try to run too much boost.

With regards to Megasquirt, you said you are getting somebody else to do the work on your car?? If so, then id reccomend you dont use megasquirt, and go with OMEX or Emerald. Megasquirt is a very good ECU, just as good as the others in its class in my opinion, but its still a homebrew ecu. Its ideal for DIY builds, im using one myself, but there is not support phone line or email address you can contact if your struggling. There are a lot of different settings, setups, ecu types, board types, and versions. It has one of the biggest DIY support networks, but a mechanic cant rely on browsing internet forums to get answers, and as a result, a lot wont touch it. With OMEX or Emerald, you can get on the phone and have answers immediately in most cases. The customer service for OMEX is second to none! Once the megasquirt is set up properly, it will run just as well as the others, so just take this all in to consideration and do your research before you make your decision.

I know you might already know most of what ive wrote, but its just a few things that might be useful if youve not given them any thought, they are just my opinions, so others may not agree fully!
 
i was thinking about the problem you said about it being snatchy on and off the throttle, could this be caused by to much of a block on the exhaust? Errol? :)
 
madhillbilly17 said:
i was thinking about the problem you said about it being snatchy on and off the throttle, could this be caused by to much of a block on the exhaust? Errol? :)

Youd need to be more specific about "snatchy", but if the car is pulling strong all the way to redline, then its probably not a blockage/restrictive exhaust. A restricted exhaust would pull very strong at the start of the rev range, with a mountain of torque, but then the power would drop of the higher up the revs go.

I just read what you said about a 0-100 of 11secs!! Thats a big ask! The quickest ive done 0-100 is about 13-14 secs and mine is 230bhp, granted i have no LSD, but i think youll be looking at 300bhp or more for a FWD turbocharged puma to do 0-100 in 11 secs or less! It will be an amazing machine if you achieve your goal!
 
hey good input, hear your point about the megasquirt and omex...will look into these...

the car is I suspect fuelled badly at the moment so as soon as you back of the throttle its like switching the engine off its that severe. he turbo boost drops instantly.

If you are running 230, i am assuming my nitrous frp is running about 185 but I get much better torque than the turbo from start. I reckon the turbo is running 195 plus...will have to have it checked...need to get me a dyno. the turbo is a hybrid and I can change the impellor easily...i now have a guy who can do this for me so can play with that if I want...am assuming this will give me the ability to go to 15 psi.....understand what you mean about psi and power, just a gusetimate on my part based on current issues, 9 psi with poor fuelling and 195 bhp, with good fuelling it should be up to 210, with 15 PSi I am assuming we will go to 250...as i say i have to start playing first and I have not yet looked into the eco that van aachen used...just want to get some menaigful stats from this car as is for now...

will go for a dyno session in a few days...will let you know how it gets on...


As to the gearbox well we will have to see how that goes...
 
Yeah, im looking forward to your results!! If you managed to get a dyno rig, that would be amazing, you can map any car and aftermarket ECU yourself! The problem i have mapping cars, is that i can not put a designated load on the engine at a designated RPM, and for that reason i will never be able to map it perfectly, i have to be conservative with it, and sacrifice a few bhp! It will be good for you to get a bhp readout, and then fit an intercooler and get a readout. At 9psi id immagine the intake charge is quite hot, so you might get another 15-20bhp from just fitting an intercooler, and it will be safer for the engine too.

If the car was running lean at high RPM, you would get a backfire alot when you lift off after hard acceleration. And if you have no fuelling mods, then im pretty confident it wont be running rich at 9psi, unless your Lambda sensor is on its way out, that would cause it to run rich, but that would affect acceleration too. Does the car idle ok? You can have these symptoms when the idle control valve is nackard, you lift off after accelerating and it feels like it wants to stall. Turbo boost is supposed to drop instantly, there is no load on the engine, so the boost will instantly drop off, thats normal so no problem there!

Another quick note on the ECU's, most wont run the VCT, so you may be better running dual ECU's. Let the puma ECU run the VCT, and the aftermarket run the other stuff. Let me know if you need any help with wiring the ECU, there is a specific way to wire them in if you want to run aftermarket fuel and spark, but still have the PATS security. Once you fit most aftermarket ECU's, it bypasses the ford immobiliser, so its easy to steal the car, but i can send you wiring diagrams that ive made that will allow you to have full control of the spark and fuel, or just control 1 or the other, and still maintain all the features of the ford ECU such as immobiliser.
 
its going to a dyno locally first..will see what she has now...me getting a dyno will take a bit of time, biggest issue is where to put it...it could be that the turbo guage isnt accurate too so it all needs a bit of fiddling. just getting used to the car for now, wheel bearings being done today and rotors going off to hi-spec for repair or replacement...we will see how she runs and stops then...shame the bad weather is upon us...

the car idles fine, not totally happy this morning but it was freezing cold fired immediately, just didnt tick over for two goes...

yes intercooler first on the list, then I start pumping things up...no idea how far this turbo will go but we will have a play...if i can get 230 out of the rig as is with minimal change I would be well happy, it is fast as it is....will be good to get it timed too...

I will fit high output fuel pump too, no idea what is in it at the moment...
it doesnt back fire, it pulls like a train and is totally sweet, just at steady throttle its the sudden on and off boost that causes it to feel odd...not sure we can modify this...
anyway for now she is running sweet and fine...and is a very very nice car to drive, the power is smooth and progressive and it is a treat to drive, instant smooth power that you feel through your body...
 
IfIOC your engine can take it, if you boosted to 12psi, the same as mine, you would have more power then mine because my engine is 8.5:1, so with yours at 10.3:1, you will be less laggy, & more power. As long as you have breakdown cover,what's the worst that can happen??? :shock:
 
it is basically lag free, the turbo spools up instantly and I get good grunt from very low revs..

not sure about the compression yet, will start doing all that work likely after I have sorted the brakes and bearings...cannot wait to find out what has been done though, she is perfect in the midrange, exactly where i want the power..am very impressed...

I am hoping to take on a wizz kid tuner specialist. He will take over all of this and move me forward.

I am of the opinion that with between 250 and 300 bhp that an frp with a little bit of weight loss, say 100kg-200 or a bit more will be under 1 ton and therefore have a power to weight ration above 300 bhp per ton and be a little rocket ship...thats where I am heading...

I keep looking at 4x4 cossies and gtr's and other exoctica but they are all just too fast, too mental for modern roads,...I would find myself driving at ridiculous speeds to achieve anything like the sensation I get from dirivng a lightweight puma...
 
right it looks like it has no additional ecu...I guess it is running using the MAf and std ecu compensating for the flow...its a really simple installation as far as I can see...very very simple.

bolt on and go...AM AMAZED IT HASNT DESTROYED ITSELF.

Will take it to the dyno and see what we have...
 
likely will then fit bigger injectores, mondeo 2 litre units then fit Omex ECU...and then take her for a bit of dyno fun and see what we can get.. May have to look into improving the manifold and then just maybe reduce compression to around 9 :1 instead of 10 to 1...all depends upon how it all goes...but its looking good at the moment...just noticed looks like the clutch is leaking in the bell housing so cltuch will start slipping next...damn another gearbox out and clutch change. Anyone know what is the strongest ford unit that I can fit in the box. Not happy with after market clutches. Will an RS clutch fit out of the focus...
 
got some additional news, there is a black box in the system, it is about 1 inch long and half inch deep x half inch....it has a few wires connected and I guess it is some sort of super chip...no idea what it does but am assuming it has some effect upon the fuelling...its maybe why the thing runs so sweet...but i am thinking of going omex for the ecu upgrade...
 
The RS clutch wont fit, its too big. The best ford items that will fit your car are the 1.8 focus clutch, thats been tried and tested by Jocko on here, and apparently the fiesta ST150 clutch fits, but youd need to double check it fits. Ford will tell you they dont fit, but im sure there are people on here that have fitted them botth. I think however that for the power you are looking for, youll eat through more clutches then hot dinners!! :lol: For the price, you could always try one and see how it goes?

Van Aaken didnt fit any chip to the ECU on the original conversions, but they got more advanced with later conversions, so that black box may well be one, have you got any pics of the black box, or can you see where it is located and where its wired into?? The Mondeo 2.0 blacktop injectors wont fit your fuel rail, and the beige mondeo injectors are only 192cc, so even if you ran them at 100% duty cycle, youd struggle to get 200bhp out of them, unless you went with a 5th injector. I searched for ages to find out the puma injector flow rate, but couldnt find it anywhere i looked, so if you have any luck on that, let me know!!

There really arent many options for injectors to fit the puma fuel rail, most ECU's prefer high impedance injectors. Theres a guy on here "d170sam", whos had a custom fuel rail made to allow fitment of top feed injectors. That opens up a whole world of options.

How do you plan to lower compression, decomp plate, or dished pistons?

My puma at 230bhp is awesome, ive seen off big power cosworths, subaru imprezzas, and some heavily modified cars, so if you get more then that with a good torque curve, it will be some machine!!
 
I will not stop until I have at least 250 out of this girl, and at least the same from the frp's...

i will photo the chip and then see if I can identify the wires. I would suspect it has upped the injector frequency but no idea really. Okay will look into the injector issue a bit further...

I may take a look at the ford bin and see what else can be done...

As to the clutch, I have a leaking actuator so the clutch will be done this week. i will get an 1.8 focus clutch and see how that holds up....once I have her running properly and stopping etc I will start the tweaking parts.

Now I am a bit wiser she is first getting an omex controller....will play with this and see how far we can go.
Once I have tweaked and played as much as I can, if the engine is still in one piece I will rebuild it with a decompression plate. I will likely use just 9 :1 as said above but will take decision once i know the maximum i can boost out of this turbo and the best I can get with current fuelling...


I will get 250 bhp
even if i have to fit nitrous too.
 
ha ha, nitrus and turbo are actually a very good combination, nitrus cools the charge down, and eliminates turbo lag (if you have to upgrade your turbo), so will be very good. If you want 9:1 comp ratio, you need about 1.5mm decomp plate. Just do as much research as you can, or you'll just keep throwing money at it and it wont get to where you want.

Its worth remembering that nobody has got more then about 230bhp on standard internals without blowing the engine up!

If you really want to keep your standard fuel rail, there are some older Subaru injectors that will fit, they are high impedane, or some of the nissans have low impedance side feed injectors that will fit, you just need ford "O" rings.

If that black box just turns out to be a cheap ebay mod chip, that shows just how strong the 1.7 engine is, its been running massive EGT's, 9psi of boost, high compression, no ignition retard, no extra fuelling, and no intercooler and its still going. Even if it blows up now, its already out lasted most other engines that have just had a turbo bolted to them!
 
agree...

who has gone beyond 230..anyone on here. and when you say it blows it what happens, big ends rods main bearings...cams...what fails...I hear there is sume suspicion about lubrication to the heads....any ideas on this...

may just give the heads of some of the engines I have a bit of home done mild porting to improve flow and maybe fit higher lift cams, ala frp...will see. play time still to be had first...
 
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