i will go through all the paperwork more thoroughly and see if anything was done to the cams but I suspect not. and i have yet to confirm that the plate is actually fitted...but this car has been as is for over 10 years and has proven to be mega reliable...and goes very well, but not well enough yet...
update on projects
- Thread starter paulob1
- Start date
Help Support ProjectPuma:
well nitrous puma is nearly re built, heres an interesting one, I bought a high capacity 225 bhp clutch from someone, forget who now but it may have been pumabuild or pumaspeed, its lasted less than 1000 miles and is down to the rivets....totally useless. Now it did get contaminated covered in oil when the crank seal went. it cleaned up okay but I am hoping that this was the reason for its lasck of grip...going to fit st clutch this time and see how we go...LSD now in...
fifth gear puller arrives tomorrow, will get 330 nm clutch, race and rally for it, as i said the 220nm 5 paddle clutch lasted just 600 miles. totally useless...cannot imagine my nitrous is pumping that much torque. am wondering if the clutch release bearing was sticking or something. seems damn odd...it was a new clutch release unit but the master cylinder was leaking a tad, perhaps it was getting air into the system and partially disengaging the clutch plate...
PumaNoob
New member
Do you have any details of the 330nm clutch kit mate? Thats about 245lb/ft, and companies normally give lower figures to cover themselves, so it might be capable of more!
okay puma speed is getting disc brakes on the rear, and also going to have poly bushes all round.
think i will also stick some st200 discs and calipers on her too.
I am just making up some new lower suspension arms for the puma...new ones seems a bit dear and mine will be just as good but I am planning to add additional bracing to the arm to ensure good stiffness. Will refurb the old ones and use them as spares. I will make new for the other two also and just may do the same to the std cars as well...will investigate teh geometry issues and look into the castor and lean in etc.I can if I want to make it a bit longer still and increase track even further and this may be considered once i have thought through the drive shafts and the track rod arms...track rod arms easy, drive shafts easy too just need them balanced. all good for the track day car...
the cams on the frp has anyone changed them for a more aggressive set...am thinking I want to find around 20 bhp on the std engine, bigger MAF, bigger injectors? high lift cams could see easily 175 bhp, i think...anyone think the same...once i then add the nitrous, this will boost me to about 200-205bhp but raise torque and driveability massively...
am fixing the brakes on turbo next week then she is off to the dyno, then she gets and intercooler, dyno, then we fiddle with boost then dyno, then we have a play with injecotrs and dyno...250 seems a long way off right now but i am still very keen to get there...
think i will also stick some st200 discs and calipers on her too.
I am just making up some new lower suspension arms for the puma...new ones seems a bit dear and mine will be just as good but I am planning to add additional bracing to the arm to ensure good stiffness. Will refurb the old ones and use them as spares. I will make new for the other two also and just may do the same to the std cars as well...will investigate teh geometry issues and look into the castor and lean in etc.I can if I want to make it a bit longer still and increase track even further and this may be considered once i have thought through the drive shafts and the track rod arms...track rod arms easy, drive shafts easy too just need them balanced. all good for the track day car...
the cams on the frp has anyone changed them for a more aggressive set...am thinking I want to find around 20 bhp on the std engine, bigger MAF, bigger injectors? high lift cams could see easily 175 bhp, i think...anyone think the same...once i then add the nitrous, this will boost me to about 200-205bhp but raise torque and driveability massively...
am fixing the brakes on turbo next week then she is off to the dyno, then she gets and intercooler, dyno, then we fiddle with boost then dyno, then we have a play with injecotrs and dyno...250 seems a long way off right now but i am still very keen to get there...
PumaNoob
New member
If you are turbocharging the FRP, dont get uprated cams yet, unless they are specifically designed for a turbo. Cams made for an NA car may loose you power on a turbocharged car. Depending on other mods, on a turbocharged car, you would ideally want around 500 degrees duration between both the cams. So 250 degrees inlet and 250 exhaust would be good, 260 inlet with 240 exhaust could also also work well, but you dont really want to try and run with too much duration on the cams, it creates too much overlap, and you either loose some of your compression stroke, or some of the combustion stroke. It scavenges on an NA, so you can run with a really hot cam like a 290 degree duration if you wanted, but that would be abserlutely aweful in a turbo. You can go for higher lift, but try and keep the duration down if you can.
Dont just pick a cam because its higher lift or just for the duration, you really need to find out the head flow rate, then match the cams to it. The best type of cam for an NA or turbo is a cam that keeps the valve in its efficiency range the longest. So if your max efficiency lift was 9mm, youd probably use a 9.5mm cam, so it goes just past the max efficiency range, then instantly when closing, goes back through that efficiency range. Then the ramp is designed to elongate the time in the efficiency range. If you had a 12mm lift cam, you are wasting engine power, because it uses more energy to lift it that 2.5mm more, so you are adding more stress to the engine for no reason, so they will actually loose you power. Its more technical then that, but thats it in a nut shell, and that is the same in turbo or NA.
Its a common misconception that bigger fuel injectors give you more power. More fuel in the engine will loose you power, not increase it. If the standard injectors fuel fine past 200bhp, then changing them to bigger ones will not gain you anything, except if they are a very highly developed injector with a better spray pattern, but generally not.
Have you considered individual throttle bodies for your NA with nitrus? People have got around 200bhp with just those and mapping, with nitrus aswell, you wouldnt need much to get 250??
You have so many projects on the go, i dont know what you will come up with next!!
When you say you might fit ST200 calipers & discs, did you mean on the front or rear? I was looking for a potential upgrade for my rears, so if they fit, i might look into it, i think i have a set of rear calipers in my garage somewhere!
Dont just pick a cam because its higher lift or just for the duration, you really need to find out the head flow rate, then match the cams to it. The best type of cam for an NA or turbo is a cam that keeps the valve in its efficiency range the longest. So if your max efficiency lift was 9mm, youd probably use a 9.5mm cam, so it goes just past the max efficiency range, then instantly when closing, goes back through that efficiency range. Then the ramp is designed to elongate the time in the efficiency range. If you had a 12mm lift cam, you are wasting engine power, because it uses more energy to lift it that 2.5mm more, so you are adding more stress to the engine for no reason, so they will actually loose you power. Its more technical then that, but thats it in a nut shell, and that is the same in turbo or NA.
Its a common misconception that bigger fuel injectors give you more power. More fuel in the engine will loose you power, not increase it. If the standard injectors fuel fine past 200bhp, then changing them to bigger ones will not gain you anything, except if they are a very highly developed injector with a better spray pattern, but generally not.
Have you considered individual throttle bodies for your NA with nitrus? People have got around 200bhp with just those and mapping, with nitrus aswell, you wouldnt need much to get 250??
You have so many projects on the go, i dont know what you will come up with next!!
When you say you might fit ST200 calipers & discs, did you mean on the front or rear? I was looking for a potential upgrade for my rears, so if they fit, i might look into it, i think i have a set of rear calipers in my garage somewhere!
PumaNoob
New member
You must be abserlutely loaded!!! :lol:
So if you brought a clutch like mine for 3 of your pumas, your looking at £1300, new cams would cost £1200, and exhausts would cost at least £500, so just for them 3 things your looking at 3 grand!!!
So if you brought a clutch like mine for 3 of your pumas, your looking at £1300, new cams would cost £1200, and exhausts would cost at least £500, so just for them 3 things your looking at 3 grand!!!
not loaded just fed up with driving cars that cost 50k plus and are boring....so I am spending the kind of money I used to spend on my other cars, on the pumas because I get such a thrill driving them. Plus I have currently stopped buying ex military vehicles and the money I would have spent was burning a hole in my pocket so it has to go....
I used to get the same thrill from a S3 lotus esprit, not stupidly fast but great fun to drive...these cars are like that...they must suit my psyche...the biggest problem I have is that if I had a GTR then the real fun is to be had at plus 150 mph and I would either be dead or in prison...so pumas here I stay for a bit anyway...st keeps calling me and and escort cossie but I am resiting at the moment whilst I am focused on the Puma's
I want a car that flies to 100 mph and handles all the way, that is enough for me...
I used to get the same thrill from a S3 lotus esprit, not stupidly fast but great fun to drive...these cars are like that...they must suit my psyche...the biggest problem I have is that if I had a GTR then the real fun is to be had at plus 150 mph and I would either be dead or in prison...so pumas here I stay for a bit anyway...st keeps calling me and and escort cossie but I am resiting at the moment whilst I am focused on the Puma's
I want a car that flies to 100 mph and handles all the way, that is enough for me...
PumaNoob
New member
I drove a lamborghini gallardo and a nissan GTR around a track a few weeks ago, and i have to say that the loambo wasnt what i expected, i was a little dissapointed 
It was fun to drive, and the fact that it was left hand drive didnt help, and i didnt know the car, but the Nissan was amazing. And i dont think you need to be going that fast to enjoy it, i was only going a max of about 70mph around the track, appart from 1 long straight that you can open it up a little :grin: . But i think it depends where you drive a car, i think if you get a car with lots of low down torque, and drive on a small windy track, its great. But cars that have all the power top end, are only fun to drive on long straight rds with a few very minor bends in. Well, thats my opinion on it anyway!
It was fun to drive, and the fact that it was left hand drive didnt help, and i didnt know the car, but the Nissan was amazing. And i dont think you need to be going that fast to enjoy it, i was only going a max of about 70mph around the track, appart from 1 long straight that you can open it up a little :grin: . But i think it depends where you drive a car, i think if you get a car with lots of low down torque, and drive on a small windy track, its great. But cars that have all the power top end, are only fun to drive on long straight rds with a few very minor bends in. Well, thats my opinion on it anyway!
yippeekiay
Well-known member
Just a thought so hear me out........
If your simply looking to see if the Puma can take 250bhp at this early stage and are willing to test it to destruction (worse case scenario). A much quicker way would be to stick a 100 shot of nitrous straight in the FRP engine and see how it copes. Will take 5 minutes to change the jets and away you go. Using that much long term would obviously require you using a direct port setup as 75 is about the limit on a single crossfire - also the ignition would require retard over 75 too.
I would love to do this to mine but have only added 50 so far. Was going to put 75 in as I think it'd cope (the clutch wouldn't I don't think) and that would have given me around 200bhp but WAY more torque but had to take the bloody system off. Maybe next year
If your simply looking to see if the Puma can take 250bhp at this early stage and are willing to test it to destruction (worse case scenario). A much quicker way would be to stick a 100 shot of nitrous straight in the FRP engine and see how it copes. Will take 5 minutes to change the jets and away you go. Using that much long term would obviously require you using a direct port setup as 75 is about the limit on a single crossfire - also the ignition would require retard over 75 too.
I would love to do this to mine but have only added 50 so far. Was going to put 75 in as I think it'd cope (the clutch wouldn't I don't think) and that would have given me around 200bhp but WAY more torque but had to take the bloody system off. Maybe next year
PumaNoob
New member
Its probably an idea, but it wouldnt be like simulating a turbo, because a turbo puts the engine under a lot more stress, as youve got the 4-2-1 on the frp, and as opposed to the very small turbo inlet, so a lot higher engine temps and exhaust gas temps. Also nitrus runs very cool, so the cylinder temps will be very different, so youd need more retard on a turbo then nitrus, although im not sure how well nitrus compares to petrol/air mixture when it comes to pre ignition, but id immagine it could be compressed more then air/fuel before it ignited! Might be a good indicator though!
yes it is, but likely the plan will go like this...nitrous will go 50 next....she has the 33o nm clutch and we will see how she runs...
frp 2 will go turbo, we will first try it with the std ecu and jets and see how she runs, then we will try an omex controller
turbo aachen is getting an intercooler then bigger MAF then bigger jets and more boost...if the compression is really at 7.5 to 1 she will take easily 20psi maybe even 25 with a few stronger bits here and there but as I say break her time maybe...see how she holds up, engines are so cheap it dones tmatter if I break a few.
Pumaspeed is getting wider rear end, and a nitrous kit too...because I have a spare one...
i have owned a few powerful cars...including an XKR Diablo lotus esprit with and without turbo s4, and a few hot std cars...the xkr was the easiest to drive at silly speeds, but the worst on bends, the lotus always the most fun until then spin on you...scary stuff...the pumas beat them all for basic fun...hear what you say that they are good at 70mph but own one and you will find yourself needed and using more and more of the speed...until wham points, licence etc..
frp 2 will go turbo, we will first try it with the std ecu and jets and see how she runs, then we will try an omex controller
turbo aachen is getting an intercooler then bigger MAF then bigger jets and more boost...if the compression is really at 7.5 to 1 she will take easily 20psi maybe even 25 with a few stronger bits here and there but as I say break her time maybe...see how she holds up, engines are so cheap it dones tmatter if I break a few.
Pumaspeed is getting wider rear end, and a nitrous kit too...because I have a spare one...
i have owned a few powerful cars...including an XKR Diablo lotus esprit with and without turbo s4, and a few hot std cars...the xkr was the easiest to drive at silly speeds, but the worst on bends, the lotus always the most fun until then spin on you...scary stuff...the pumas beat them all for basic fun...hear what you say that they are good at 70mph but own one and you will find yourself needed and using more and more of the speed...until wham points, licence etc..
PumaNoob
New member
Where do you actually live, if your local to me you can borrow mine!
PumaNoob
New member
Oh, ok, nowhere near me anyway!! Wich suspension bushes are you trying to remove, the lower rear bushes? Ive never had to remove a set of those, they have outlasted the suspension in my cars!
the main pivot arm bushes completely knackerd, it may have something to do with the handbrake and sideways activity it gets but they were actually totally sloppy. Whole rear end moving sideways...done now, just got to refit and I will be all polybushed up, this engine is going nitrous, its a 68k miler that I took out of another car, owned by a stunning young lady from Turkey, wow, I BOUGHT THE CAR FOR 435, took the engine out and fitted to pumaspeed whose main bearings had failed, idiot driving it ran it out of oil...not me. Had a superb blue tooth and USB/aux in radio in it worth a small fortune, brand new tyres plus full tax, now refunded and I got 110 quid for it as scrap...real bargain...plus I found a nice parker fountain pen in it...
but anyway i digress, this clears the space for the rebuild of the turbo puma brakes and we are going to then take her for a dyno, then fit the intercooler, we are using a pajero turbo intercoololer we have lying around for now and see how it works, it is fitted with a small fan to keep it cool so we will place it under the bonnet vents just about where the battery used to be...
will then dyno it again and see how she improves, then its boost boost boost until bang...
but anyway i digress, this clears the space for the rebuild of the turbo puma brakes and we are going to then take her for a dyno, then fit the intercooler, we are using a pajero turbo intercoololer we have lying around for now and see how it works, it is fitted with a small fan to keep it cool so we will place it under the bonnet vents just about where the battery used to be...
will then dyno it again and see how she improves, then its boost boost boost until bang...
PumaNoob
New member
Oh, you mean rear axle bushes!! Yeah, ive done those on mine, and yeah, they are a pig to get out!!! Is the Pajero intercooler not top mount?? I always find top mount not to be as efficient as front mount, the heat from the engine always moves upward, its just the laws of physics!! A front mount is in the direct line of cold air, so has the most chance of cooling the charge down, and will always give a colder charge. Bonnet vents (unless they are scoops), are to let heat escape, so you are putting a cooler in the direct path of the escaping hot air! Top mount will cool, but not as much as front, and at the cost of an electric fan, that is taking more power from your battery, thus taking power from your car!! But in your case, it HAS to be better then what you have on there at the moment, NOTHING!!! :lol:
Have you got anything to record your IAT's?? Would be good if you can put a graph/chart with them on next to the Dyno printout with the cooler, and without the cooler, just to see how much it cools the charge down, and how much difference it makes.
Have you got anything to record your IAT's?? Would be good if you can put a graph/chart with them on next to the Dyno printout with the cooler, and without the cooler, just to see how much it cools the charge down, and how much difference it makes.
