Do not buy from Machinemart!!

[PumaNoob]

Thought I'd make a post to alert anyone who doesn't already know about Machinemarts "You'll never ever get your money back" policy!

Ok, so I brought a car creeper from machinemart and within a few weeks of use the wheels started to wobble and become unstable. I kept using it and after a few months the bearings fell out one by one. I took it back with the 12 month warranty and I was told this is the first they'd ever had this issue, even though my father in law had exactly the same issue around Christmas time.

Anyhow, they said they would replace just the wheels (which is fine) but then I proceeded to ask, "as there is a 12 month warranty on parts, will the 12month warranty start again on the wheels as they are new"?? The answer I got was no! I said I'm not happy with that as I know as soon as I get home the wheels will fall out as soon as I look at it!! Those of you that know me, know I'm not the heaviest guy! So I requested a refund as the product is not fit for purpose & I know it's not going to last. They said they'd have to return it to head office and get it checked, & if they find there is a design fault, I'll be refunded.

They decided to keep the item over a month until the original warranty ran out, and then gave me a call to say "your creeper is back in store repaired". I said I don't want it repaired, I requested a refund. I was told that they thought it would be easier to repair so never even requested a refund, & now my warranty is up, I can't do anything!

If you got to screwfix, Costco, Halfords, or pretty much any other place, if you get something replaced, you get a new receipt and a new warranty, as the warranty is on the part, the part is guarenteed to last 12months, so should start from when you take ownership of if the part! They've fitted new garbage wheels to my creeper and even if they don't last a week, I'm stuffed!

I can't be bothered phoning trading standards or watchdog lol so hopefully this post will prevent anyone else from getting robbed by them!

 

[alexwilliams840]

That level of customer service is shocking, they must be complete bar stewards or machinemart employ straight from the zoo

 

[russv]

Hmm I'm sure most manufacturers don't do what you ask.

Usually you get some extra warranty on repairs (like 90 days), but only if the original warranty expires before the end of those 90 days.

Take it to the extreme, say you have a 5 year warranty, and an item breaks after 4 years 11 months - if you take it back, would you expect another 5 years warranty?
(or put it another way, if you were a manufacturer, would you want to offer that?)

Basically when you bought it, you bought a warranty with it (as part of the product), it lasts from the day you bought it (one time only), and repaired parts are something different, they don't have to come with the same warranty. Its usually in the small print on the manual etc.

I don't agree with how long they made you wait, thats something different.

 

[PumaNoob]

I don't share that view. If Clarke gives you a warranty on a part, they are saying that part is guarenteed to last for a year. So each part should start that warranty from when you have it. That is the poit of warranty, you put your name behind your product, & you are saying that that item will last the duration on 12 months in this instance. So to give you a new part and not give that warranty is acceptance that that part will not last 12 months, so the quality is not as good as you claim, so the description is incorrect.

If I was a manufacture, then yes I definitely would give a new warranty on a new part. The way I see it, the wheels are faulty. So machinemart call up Clarke (I know Clarke is probably owned by them), and say "I need to order 6 wheels". Those wheels should come with a warranty when brought new.

It's only the same as buying a car. Your 3 year warranty runs out and the alternator breaks. You buy a new alternator, and what happens? You get a warranty with the part. They don't say "the car is 4 years old so it don't count".

 

[PumaNoob]

Or putting it another way, let's say you brought a car, and the quality was real poor, and it started falling apart within a year. You have a years warranty on it. 10 months after buying they offer you an identical replacement, but you only have 2 months of warranty left on it, & you know full well the car will fall apart again but you'll be out of warranty in 2 months. Would you not agree that the product is faulty ad has major design flaws and request a refund?

 

[madhillbilly17]

thats crap thanks for the heads up,i wouldn't take a repair new or refund only shouldn't matter if the warranty is out the matter was reported within the warranty time,i would give it back and not accept it mate.

 

[PumaNoob]

Well an exchange for new was my second request after the refund was denied, but again I was told that the warranty would not be started from when the new one was given but would be from the original date of purchase so wouldn't have made a difference.

In my eyes, if a product doesn't last as long as you say it will, then there is something wrong with it and you should refund it as it's part of the product description, and so potentially under trade descriptions act, I should be entitled to a refund. I'm not a legal expert on this type of stuff, I'm just simply putting my views across. There will be some that disagree, & that's fine. But if you have the option of a place that will give you a new warranty on any new items or a refund with no questions asked, I know where I'd choose.

 

[russv]

Yeah, if you, as a consumer, buy something new (like an alternator) then it comes with a warranty. But if that alternator comes with a 12 month warranty and breaks after 10 months and you had it replaced under warranty, you wouldn't get another full warranty unless you bought a new alternator, but you might get an extra month on your warranty or something like that.

When you buy a product you are agreeing to the warranty and its terms and are bound by them (as long as its lawful). They are usually to replace or repair the product as long as its in the warranty period, but they very rarely say you can have a refund or the same warranty on replaced parts.

Yeah you can go to watchdog and they would probably buckle and give in, since it'd cost them more not to, but you need a lot more than one other example to convince them (because in fairness, it could just be bad luck, it can happen, bear in mind they probably sell 1000's).

Machinemart doesn't buy wheels from Clarke, Clarke sends the wheels to them to honour your warranty (or Machinemart claims the cost of the wheels from Clarke that they had in stock and used to repair the item). They only give the big warranties to the consumers, as a sales technique really, to give you peace of mind within that period of time. The point is that you get the wheels for free and fitted for free in that period of time.

For the car example, its the same situation, unless its clear its not a lemon and lots of other people have the same problems. But because its such a big purchase and they don't want you to put off other people, they'd probably do something for you (or have a nicer warranty in the first place). But thats a special situation compared to a smaller and more obscure purchase (compared to the popularity of cars). Its the same situation as if you bought something from a small company, they can use more discretion because the boss is there, etc., but big companies don't usually bother to do that because its extra training for staff to determine what to do in each situation, and more arguments at the till ("you done it for my mate, why not me?") etc.

 

[MaxSparta]

Being someone who works in manufacturing (We build Range Cookers) if we replace a part or appliance like for like then we would give a brand new warranty on it, because thats exactly what it is, a brand new product. If we repair an existing item on an appliance then a limited warranty is applied to cover the work done but the main warranty is not effected unless we specifically offer it as a good will gesture.

Basically youput your complaint in before the warranty expired so at that point it doesnt matter if you roll over the 12 months and the warranty expires as the original issue is still ongoing. They really would not have a leg to stand on if you took it higher.

With regards to refunds it depends on how long in to the products life the item failed. iirc If it is within 6 months it is the manufactures perogative to prove that the failure was not down to a manufacturing defect, after 6 months it is the customers.

 

[PumaNoob]

Well I personally have had experiences with faulty goods from the screwfix and costco and they have exchanged for new with a new with a new warranty.

I don't think it should matter weather it's a big purchase or not, Machinemarts products go up to thousands, yet the same rules apply. Your right that there's a chance it's just one faulty item (I know it's not as it's my second and my father in law has had a few that have gone the same way), but then if it was, why would you not be confident that your product lasts as long as you say it will?

I'm not talking about a product that nearly went the distance here, I'm talking about a product that you notice additional movement in bearings the first time you use it. I brought it and kept it in the box for a few months while my old one completely let go. I don't use it very often, as I've worked away from home for months at a time, so I'd say it's had 30 days outings max.

I also had a valve lapping tool from them that didn't go the distance, so I ended up doing it by hand. It was returned for an exchange but I didn't build another cylinder head for about a year. And when I went to use it again, guess what, it busted and I'm out of warranty! And a neighbour has a tool chest that had dodgy draw runners, took his time to return it, and got it fixed and the same thing happened again. Now hes stuck with it.

So Russ, you have the option to replace an item and they would start the warranty again, would you not take it? If a company offered to exchange an item for you that you knew would fall apart within hours of using, would you just take it? I'm talking zero warranty here, as soon as you take it out the door, your on your own!

Even with your opinion against mine, you still are of the same opinion that you should get at least something like a 90 or even 60 day warranty on the parts!

 

[PumaNoob]

Being someone who works in manufacturing (We build Range Cookers) if we replace a part or appliance like for like then we would give a brand new warranty on it, because thats exactly what it is, a brand new product

Thanks, that's exactly my point. What they have done is recognised the product is faulty, and rather then exchanging for a new one, they have opened a new box one in front of me, and taken the wheels off and put them onto mine. It would have been easier not to destroy a new one, & just gave me the new one instead. But they've gone out of their way to give me the worst possible outcome. Would range dismantle a brand new oven to fit the parts to a used one? Range stands by their products, it says they'll last you so long, & if it don't, they'll give you another one that will last the duration.

 

[russv]

Well, I would expect some extra warranty, but anything extra is actually a nice thing, not standard (fact not opinion).

You are missing the point that you buy the warranty with the product, they aren't saying the product will last 12 months, they are saying that if it fails within 12 months they will replace or repair it. Its you who reads too much into it and expects too much, sorry to "break" it to you

I'm not really trying to give opinions, but facts. You are thinking of a guarantee, not a warranty.

 

[PumaNoob]

I don't feel I am missing the point, my point is simple. If you sell a product, you should stand by it. If you don't stand by it, don't sell it, or don't offer warranty of guarentee, & sell on a sold as seen basis.

I feel it' you missing the point, a new part should come with warranty or guarentee regardless of how you obtained it (through purchase or through a replacement), a new item is supposed to last a sufficient amount of time.

And you have not answered my question so I'll ask again in a simpler way. If you brought an item, barely used it and it fell apart almost instantly, and then you took it back and they would only replace it with the same garbage, regardless of time period, warranties, guarentees, or any of that, would you be happy about it, knowing full well it will only fall apart again? You've not brought a cheap model, you've brought the middle one? Yay or Nay??

 

[SpeedFreak]

Makes sense that you should get warranty with a new part.

If russv is right then where do you stand if you win something?if I won a washing machine do I get no warranty because I've not paid cash?or if I get a buy one get one free, so I only get warranty on one?or if its half price do I only get half warranty?

If you've paid cash,won,or obtained by default,it should make no difference.

 

[russv]

I don't feel I am missing the point, my point is simple. If you sell a product, you should stand by it. If you don't stand by it, don't sell it, or don't offer warranty of guarentee, & sell on a sold as seen basis.

Its not a warranty of guarantee, they are two separate things... all a warranty says is that it will be repaired or replaced if a fault develops. A guarantee says something like, "it will last X months/years or your money back".

I feel it' you missing the point, a new part should come with warranty or guarentee regardless of how you obtained it (through purchase or through a replacement), a new item is supposed to last a sufficient amount of time.

Depends how you're talking - "should" as in thats what you think is right, or "should" as in those are your rights? The fact is the product as a whole has the warranty, the manufacturer warrants that the product will be repaired, the part inherits the same warranty as the product does (you could take it in for repair every day and they'd have to do it). Thats the legal view of it and its pretty much all I have been trying to say.

Now my opinion: I agree its a bit different for more expensive things like cars, because the parts actually are sold separately and they normally come with a warranty. I do think its out of order to get a part replaced and essentially have its (extra) warranty which it WOULD have had, voided, just because you already have a warranty on the car. For example an alternator which is replaced that normally has a 2 year warranty, on a car which has 4 months warranty remaining, the alternator breaks after 5 months and they say you have to buy a new alternator. That would be unfair (or to put another way: reasonable to assume that part would still be under warranty).

But the wheels on a creeper aren't like that, individually they don't have any warranty, maybe they should, but you have to see that its not the easiest thing to do. They aren't sold separately on the shelf like a car part is, it could be a nightmare, imagine a pressure washer nozzle is under warranty for 8 more months but the unit itself has 4 months, then a hose breaks and now it has 12 months warranty on the hose, and the shop has to talk to the manufacturer and order in the hoses and nozzles specially for each person, I mean seriously you want them to do that? :? My opinion is that its a short sighted view of how a business which already handles hundreds if not thousands of parts and deals with a lot of manufacturers is expected to perform.

And you have not answered my question so I'll ask again in a simpler way. If you brought an item, barely used it and it fell apart almost instantly, and then you took it back and they would only replace it with the same garbage, regardless of time period, warranties, guarentees, or any of that, would you be happy about it, knowing full well it will only fall apart again? You've not brought a cheap model, you've brought the middle one? Yay or Nay??

Its not as simple as "yay or nay". Simplifying it just leaves out the details which I was trying to get across to you, its like your version of it, its not mine.

The only thing I done was point out that they aren't obliged to warrant replacement parts, they also aren't obliged to give you a refund when you return it that late either.

I also said it was a bit unfair to judge a product on only 2 examples, they both could have been from the same bad batch. Why not at least give the repaired one a go before you slate them? Maybe its OK now? I just think what you wrote was a bit strong worded thats all, you made them out to be thieves, but on the basis of 2 examples and a warranty which isn't unlawful.

 

[PumaNoob]

You are incorrect, they do sell the wheels separately. They sell the exact red wheels at I think £5 each, and a bigger black wheel at a little more but the black ones don't fit.

& guess what. The red wheels sold seperately come with 12 months warranty lol.

A and it was a typo, I was meant to say I don't know the difference between warranty 'or' guarentee.

 

[russv]

Makes sense that you should get warranty with a new part.

If russv is right then where do you stand if you win something?if I won a washing machine do I get no warranty because I've not paid cash?or if I get a buy one get one free, so I only get warranty on one?or if its half price do I only get half warranty?

If you've paid cash,won,or obtained by default,it should make no difference.

If you win something you get a warranty, because you didn't win a part of it, you won the product as if you had bought it with the warranty (the product as a whole kind of includes it). Same with BOGOF (the warranty is "free" too), same with half price (the warranty is "half price" too).

Look at this poor guy:
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answer/41004/replacement-engine-covered-by-new-warranty-" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[PumaNoob]

And my judgements are not based on 3 from a bad batch. My father in law has had them for years. Then they came over and saw me working on my car in the rain and brought me one the next Christmas. I kept that one and because I had no receipt, I brought wheels seperate & fixed it. They went, and I thought it's just as cheap to buy another crawler so I brought another one. The wheels went on that which is the one I have taken back to get to this point. These were all brought over a 5 or 6 year period.

If that's not giving them the benefit of the doubt, I don't know what is!

And the fact is that I wouldn't have had the issue at another place. I'd have had the option of at least a complete exchange, instead of an item that has been put together by monkeys that don't know their ar*e from their elbow! The guy didn't even have proper Allan keys, he used TX bits!

 

[russv]

You are incorrect, they do sell the wheels separately. They sell the exact red wheels at I think £5 each, and a bigger black wheel at a little more but the black ones don't fit.

& guess what. The red wheels sold seperately come with 12 months warranty lol.

A and it was a typo, I was meant to say I don't know the difference between warranty 'or' guarentee.

Hehe, that is pretty lame if they have them sitting there, when you said they took them off another creeper it sounded like they didn't sell them, I can kind of understand that... but yeah if they're right there its kind of weird. But I guess its some kind of blanket rule, I can kind of understand they want to keep things simple. But yeah they should pay more attention to it, doesn't look good.

 

[russv]

And my judgements are not based on 3 from a bad batch. My father in law has had them for years. Then they came over and saw me working on my car in the rain and brought me one the next Christmas. I kept that one and because I had no receipt, I brought wheels seperate & fixed it. They went, and I thought it's just as cheap to buy another crawler so I brought another one. The wheels went on that which is the one I have taken back to get to this point. These were all brought over a 5 or 6 year period.

If that's not giving them the benefit of the doubt, I don't know what is!

And the fact is that I wouldn't have had the issue at another place. I'd have had the option of at least a complete exchange, instead of an item that has been put together by monkeys that don't know their ar*e from their elbow! The guy didn't even have proper Allan keys, he used TX bits!

Lol wtf, its like the creeper chronicles? :lol:
Ok fair enough, I just thought it sounded a bit sudden at first, but yeah I can see why you finally snapped, lol!