Puma running rough?

[Coldcut]

Hi all,
i drove down the motorway this morning and after around 50 miles the car suddenly started running rough as if it was running on 3 cylinders
I carefully drove it back home,checked the oil,fluids,did an ECU reset.
Started the car back up after disconnecting the battery for 1 hour but it still sounded rough and there was quite a lot of whiteish smoke was coming out of the exhaust when i gave it slight revs for the ECU reset.
I didn't risk driving it around at it was started to cut out once i took my foot of the revs.
The fluid was normal.
The oil seemed ok,didn't look creamy inside or on the cap and it didn't look like there was any water getting in the oil,looked normal.
I put new plugs last month.
Fuel filter changed December 2017
Oil change and filters 1 month ago.

 

[red]

Could be the coil pack.. Probably still worth checking spark plugs

 

[Coldcut]

Could be the coil pack.. Probably still worth checking spark plugs

Thanks Red,
I removed all the plugs and leads and tested with a multimeter, seemed OK.
One plug was caked black in the 2nd cylinder but my car does burn a lot of oil as its done 160,00.
Anyway I cleaned them all up hoping for a slight improvement but still idled rough like it's running on 3 cylinders.
What's the quickest way to check the coil pack?
I've got the car booked in at the garage to be looked at in the morning so I'm going to just call the breakdown in the morning and if he can't diagnose anything, then I'll get him to take my car on the back.

 

[Van_Dammesque]

If you ask Halrford to do a free battery check they also do the coil pack.
Try cleaning ICV too.

 

[Coldcut]

It's at the garage,breakdown guy said it's misfiring and said it could be the coil pack as it was sparking ok.
Worse case scenario, what if the engine was knackered on one of the cylinders, what would be the cost?

 

[Van_Dammesque]

Not sure but I'd think a new engine would be in order? £400 for a good one, make sure you get the electronics loom too. Someone with better knowledge than me able to help!

 

[DOH]

1) Do a compression test on no 2 cylinder
2) What was your resistance reading with your multi meter for each of the 4 leads?
3) Do you have the earlier coilpack and if so did you gap the plugs to 1.3mm?
4) Depending upon the results of the compression test , it might be a stuck oil control ring which can often be freed off without dismantling the engine :thumbs:
5) Resistance readings can also be taken to establish if the coilpack is faulty before you purchase a replacement. Take a look on youtube on how to do this :thumbs:

 

[Coldcut]

Ok update,
The engine is knackered,no compression on cylinder 2.
I dont think its a good idea for me to waste money having it fixed as its done 160,000 and i don't know what damage has been caused.
So i think my best option is to find another engine to drop in.
My puma is a 1.7 Year 1999,
so would and puma 1.7 engine going upto 2002 still be fully compatible?

 

[dai090]

Yea I think any 1.7 engine will fit in but engines from cars with air con do have a different power steering set up. But that can be swapped over easily enough I think? So be wary of that. But try and make sure that the engine you are putting in is in good nick and whist its out replace the cambelt water pump and aux belt. I would do it regardless even if it has been done recently. At least it'll give you piece mind knowing its been done. Last thing you want is something going wrong with it. Ohhhh and also think about changing the clutch too whilst the box is off. Well unless that has been done recently too.

 

[Coldcut]

Yea I think any 1.7 engine will fit in but engines from cars with air con do have a different power steering set up. But that can be swapped over easily enough I think? So be wary of that. But try and make sure that the engine you are putting in is in good nick and whist its out replace the cambelt water pump and aux belt. I would do it regardless even if it has been done recently. At least it'll give you piece mind knowing its been done. Last thing you want is something going wrong with it. Ohhhh and also think about changing the clutch too whilst the box is off. Well unless that has been done recently too.

Thanks.
What about the ECU and the wiring etc,is that all the same set up or are there different ECU'S and wiring looms etc in diffaent model years?
Yes the clutch was changed about 3 months ago.
And yes i would get the cambelt done,take the rest of the bits of done whilst the engine is out.
If anyone has got an engine for sale let me know,as long as it not high mileage.

 

[PH03NIX]

Thanks.
What about the ECU and the wiring etc,is that all the same set up or are there different ECU'S and wiring looms etc in diffaent model years?
Yes the clutch was changed about 3 months ago.
And yes i would get the cambelt done,take the rest of the bits of done whilst the engine is out.
If anyone has got an engine for sale let me know,as long as it not high mileage.
[/quote]

((MY INPUT))
As already said, any 1.7 engine itself will drop in, difference only in A/C & powersteering up..
Don't worry about ECU and wiring keep everything in its place
Have your current clutch put in new engine... (personally I would keep 'gearbox' unless guaranteed low mileage on the next)

There is currently a company on eBay offering few so called low mileage 1.7's for around £160 minus the flywheel (with a little 3 month guarantee)... I have personally recently brought and fitted an engine from them with no issues!

Personally I say REBUILD as many that are for sale are actually high mileage and haven't been tendered to over time..
I had one under 100k head gasket went... needed valve seals and a good decorating inside another around 150ish valve seals gone but looked sweat inside!...
Parts for a head build ain't 'that hard' to find as some may say.
(Easier said when not paying the labour cost....sorry)

 

[Coldcut]

Thanks.
What about the ECU and the wiring etc,is that all the same set up or are there different ECU'S and wiring looms etc in diffaent model years?
Yes the clutch was changed about 3 months ago.
And yes i would get the cambelt done,take the rest of the bits of done whilst the engine is out.
If anyone has got an engine for sale let me know,as long as it not high mileage.

((MY INPUT))
As already said, any 1.7 engine itself will drop in, difference only in A/C & powersteering up..
Don't worry about ECU and wiring keep everything in its place
Have your current clutch put in new engine... (personally I would keep 'gearbox' unless guaranteed low mileage on the next)

There is currently a company on eBay offering few so called low mileage 1.7's for around £160 minus the flywheel (with a little 3 month guarantee)... I have personally recently brought and fitted an engine from them with no issues!

Personally I say REBUILD as many that are for sale are actually high mileage and haven't been tendered to over time..
I had one under 100k head gasket went... needed valve seals and a good decorating inside another around 150ish valve seals gone but looked sweat inside!...
Parts for a head build ain't 'that hard' to find as some may say.
(Easier said when not paying the labour cost....sorry)
[/quote]

Thanks PH03NIX for your input.
So the air con and power steering set up, this is what I need to know about?
What are the problems?
Mine does have air con.
I'm not even sure if all 1.7 pumas do have air con fitted as standard?
What if the donor engine isn't air con, is that still a problem?
If i get the Reg. No. I can check the mileage online but I suppose I would still need to see the log book of the car it came out of for the engine number?
To verify that engine actually came out of that car on that registration and not another car and the donor engine is really a lot more miles?

 

[red]

I didn't think the actual block had anything to do with aircon setup but I could be wrong?

There were definitely different blocks throughout production and different ECUs but it was my understanding (never tested) that you could do a like for like swap of the actual engine

 

[Coldcut]

I didn't think the actual block had anything to do with aircon setup but I could be wrong?

There were definitely different blocks throughout production and different ECUs but it was my understanding (never tested) that you could do a like for like swap of the actual engine

Thanks Red, i hope so, I just need as much information as possible about the engine swap as it will be the garage doing it, so who better to ask than the good folks on here.
I don't want to buy an engine then find out that I needed all the wiring and ecu and other bits and bobs for it to work.

 

[YOG]

I would contact Ian G on here. He breaks Puma's, and I believe he can tell you what the engine mileage is of the cars they come out of.

 

[Coldcut]

I would contact Ian G on here. He breaks Puma's, and I believe he can tell you what the engine mileage is of the cars they come out of.

Thanks YOG!

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

The engine is knackered,no compression on cylinder 2.

where is the leak? On piston or valve side? Try to pressurise the second cylinder and watch where is the compression going. If it is the sump, it is the piston/rings that are leaking. If it is escaping to inlet, it is inlet valves, if it is going to exhaust, it is the exhaust valves...
If the coolant starts boiling, it is the head gasket. I would personally try to locate the problem: if it is only head gasket, it is fairly minor problem...

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

I didn't think the actual block had anything to do with aircon setup but I could be wrong?

There were definitely different blocks throughout production and different ECUs but it was my understanding (never tested) that you could do a like for like swap of the actual engine

The casts are all the same alright and all are interchageable as far as the installing into the car goes. There were different looms and PCM's (ECU's) running it but the engines are the same

 

[Coldcut]

The engine is knackered,no compression on cylinder 2.

where is the leak? On piston or valve side? Try to pressurise the second cylinder and watch where is the compression going. If it is the sump, it is the piston/rings that are leaking. If it is escaping to inlet, it is inlet valves, if it is going to exhaust, it is the exhaust valves...
If the coolant starts boiling, it is the head gasket. I would personally try to locate the problem: if it is only head gasket, it is fairly minor problem...

I will ask the garage that did the test as i don't know the actual set up they used.
I was just told there was no compression in cylinder 2.

 

[PH03NIX]

I didn't think the actual block had anything to do with aircon setup but I could be wrong?

There were definitely different blocks throughout production and different ECUs but it was my understanding (never tested) that you could do a like for like swap of the actual engine

In fact you are right.
The 'installation' of engine may be different (regarding pulleys, belt and piping) all 1.7 engines are 90-95% the same!!