ULEZ Compliant?

[ulezpuma]

Has anyone managed to appeal (successfully or not) since the flurry of posts back in October?

 

[Simonavis]

I have just read an interesting article in my newly delivered Classic Ford magazine and it mentions & shows a picture of the Puma saying that it meets or exceeds Euro 4 Standard and “urges owners to obtain certificates of conformity declaring their Euro 4 compliance and sending it along with your V5 to TfL for entering into the ULEZ friendly register”
Interesting that they should mention the Puma specifically in the article.
I can post a picture of the article if people are interested

 

[johnw272]

I have just read an interesting article in my newly delivered Classic Ford magazine and it mentions & shows a picture of the Puma saying that it meets or exceeds Euro 4 Standard and “urges owners to obtain certificates of conformity declaring their Euro 4 compliance and sending it along with your V5 to TfL for entering into the ULEZ friendly register”
Interesting that they should mention the Puma specifically in the article.
I can post a picture of the article if people are interested

please do,... good info here

 

[Simonavis]

Here you go

 

[RICHARD MANSFIELD2]

Hi.

I must admit I had virtually given up on my application as I don't really need the exemption but I think I will continue on a point of principle.

I am at the stage where I will print off all my correspondence with a covering letter and post it to the department for dealing with stage 2 complaints. I will deal with it this way rather than phone or webchat.

What would be useful for me and future applicants would be a list of Puma's that have been granted ULEZ compliance. Any thoughts on such a list?

Regards
Richard.

 

[Deleted member 23990]

Hi @RICHARD MANSFIELD2

Any luck? I also have a 0.084 nox and unsure if it is worth the fight with the TfL idiots

 

[steve_mcqueen]

Hi all - has anyone had any luck in appealing their ULEZ rejection? I have just received mine from.... yes, you guessed it, D. Milton. Surely there's something, as a collective, that we can do about this? At best, it's pure laziness and pettiness while they continue to rake it in.

 

[RICHARD MANSFIELD2]

Hi.
I keep thinking about appealing. I got to the stage where it is a case of posting a hard copy to the appeal address with all my emails, copies of which are posted in this thread. Perhaps we should form an action group. What would really help would be the fact we can quote actual details of Puma's which have been successfully accepted.

 

[steve_mcqueen]

Hi.
I keep thinking about appealing. I got to the stage where it is a case of posting a hard copy to the appeal address with all my emails, copies of which are posted in this thread. Perhaps we should form an action group. What would really help would be the fact we can quote actual details of Puma's which have been successfully accepted.

Totally agree, you cannot have a two-tier approach for vehicles that have the exact same emissions and conformity documents. Definitely appeal. I will be. I will keep going till I get an adequate response. Otherwise I'll escalate it beyond the roadblock that appears to be D. Milton.

 

[Sjoerd]

If it helps I can perhaps review the data and sign a letter for you guys. I am an automotive engineer so that might give some more leverage.

 

[steve_mcqueen]

If it helps I can perhaps review the data and sign a letter for you guys. I am an automotive engineer so that might give some more leverage.

Yes, please, Sjoerd. What would you need from us?

I would consider a Freedom of Information request to TfL for them to provide the numbers and emissions of MK1 Pumas that are ULEZ exempt. However, I fear that I would be wasting my time as no doubt they will just say they don't have that information available (though they should).

 

[steve_mcqueen]

So, I've just sent off my reply (re-application) to TfL, stating that my vehicle meets not only their two decimal place 0.08 NOx emissions, but that the Puma engine was built to exceed Euro 4 standards before that even became a classification. I'll keep you updated.

In the meantime, any other evidence we can get together would be appreciated. @Sjoerd - please let us know if you have any more technical info.

To anyone else, please let us know if your Puma is ULEZ exempt and what your documented emissions are.

 

[steve_mcqueen]

You probably won't be surprised to hear that D. Milton has again refused my claim that my Puma is compliant, despite TfL using a two-decimal place quoted figure (0.08 NOx) and my emissions being 0.083, and the wider industry claim that the Puma's engine was built to exceed Euro 4 before it came in.

I have been told to contact Ford's homologation department to clarify the standard of the build - which I will do - has anyone else done this before/has a good contact etc.?

I am also going to now do a Freedom of Information request to TfL to ask them how many Ford Pumas 1997-2002 are currently on their database as ULEZ exempt. I will guess that their response will be that they don't have this information, and that is where this forum can help: Please let us know if your Puma application to be ULEZ exempt was successful, and your NOx emissions, please.

As with @RICHARD MANSFIELD2, I'm not going to drop this. I live in London so being charged £12.50 each time I take my Puma out when I probably shouldn't be is galling enough.

 

[steve_mcqueen]

They can’t approve then deny, they already have enough bad publicity. TFL case number would be the thing to accurately quote to TFL though rather than license plate and that keeps anything that is easily PID out of this. I’ll be happy to quote mine and will show it on the confirmation document with the rest of the step by step once I’m back next week.

Hi - I'm not sure if I missed it, but did you quote your ULEZ exemption letter as using yours as a comparison may be the best way to get the rest of us through. Thanks!

 

[spaggybol]

You probably won't be surprised to hear that D. Milton has again refused my claim that my Puma is compliant, despite TfL using a two-decimal place quoted figure (0.08 NOx) and my emissions being 0.083, and the wider industry claim that the Puma's engine was built to exceed Euro 4 before it came in.

I have been told to contact Ford's homologation department to clarify the standard of the build - which I will do - has anyone else done this before/has a good contact etc.?

I am also going to now do a Freedom of Information request to TfL to ask them how many Ford Pumas 1997-2002 are currently on their database as ULEZ exempt. I will guess that their response will be that they don't have this information, and that is where this forum can help: Please let us know if your Puma application to be ULEZ exempt was successful, and your NOx emissions, please.

As with @RICHARD MANSFIELD2, I'm not going to drop this. I live in London so being charged £12.50 each time I take my Puma out when I probably shouldn't be is galling enough.

My 2000 1.7 Puma is ULEZ compliant. The Nox as stated on the CoC form from Ford states 0.033.
I also submitted the details to DVSA so my Puma can drive in Bristol and Birmingham etc. I did wonder what database TFL source their info from, probably DVSA. If that is the case, having the vehicle accepted by DVSA would weaken TFL reasons to reject your submission.

 

[steve_mcqueen]

My 2000 1.7 Puma is ULEZ compliant. The Nox as stated on the CoC form from Ford states 0.033.
I also submitted the details to DVSA so my Puma can drive in Bristol and Birmingham etc. I did wonder what database TFL source their info from, probably DVSA. If that is the case, having the vehicle accepted by DVSA would weaken TFL reasons to reject your submission.

Thank you for coming back to me. I have a 2002 1.7 Ford Puma, and my CoC from Ford states an NOx of 0.083. I'm unsure of how your 1.7 Puma only has 0.033? Can someone explain this?

 

[georgrhode70]

Early Pumas 1996 - 2000 have a NOx of 0.033, thus are well inside the limit. The later Pumas were updated with different ECU, 2 lambda sensors etc. One consequence was an elevation of the NOx emission. At the time this was of no significance as the then Euro 3 allowed for much higher emissions anyway. It is a very unfortunate twist of fate. For many early Pumas it not good either. Although they pass the requirements, the relevant figures are not on the V5 or the CoC and TFL rejects them also. Correct me if I'm wrong, but to my knowledge only late 1999 and 2000 cars have the correct documentation to pass.

 

[steve_mcqueen]

Early Pumas 1996 - 2000 have a NOx of 0.033, thus are well inside the limit. The later Pumas were updated with different ECU, 2 lambda sensors etc. One consequence was an elevation of the NOx emission. At the time this was of no significance as the then Euro 3 allowed for much higher emissions anyway. It is a very unfortunate twist of fate. For many early Pumas it not good either. Although they pass the requirements, the relevant figures are not on the V5 or the CoC and TFL rejects them also. Correct me if I'm wrong, but to my knowledge only late 1999 and 2000 cars have the correct documentation to pass.

@georgrhode70 - thank you for the thorough explanation on this. Totally makes sense now. Seems like my best approach is to find someone who has had their 0.083 Puma exempt from ULEZ and ask why my exact same model and year of car is not afforded the same treatment. I'll read through this thread again, but does anyone know someone in this position?

I am still going to do a Freedom of Information request to TfL because if they don't keep this information, I can at least suggest they don't know their own database.

 

[georgrhode70]

Can anyone here who has successfully applied to DVSA for CAZ charge exemption, but NOT applied for ULEZ exemption tell me if their Puma is automatically ULEZ exempt. If you've done CAZ and not ulez please check on TFL and let us know.

 

[steve_mcqueen]

Can anyone here who has successfully applied to DVSA for CAZ charge exemption, but NOT applied for ULEZ exemption tell me if their Puma is automatically ULEZ exempt. If you've done CAZ and not ulez please check on TFL and let us know.

Good shout! I'd still also like anyone who managed to get their 0.083/4 NOx Puma ULEZ exempt to please get in touch!